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Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

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Thread: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

  1. #1
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    Default Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    Stephen quipped in his essay that if you can't kill an intruder (or your wife in the act of raiding the fridge) with 10 rounds, you need to go back to the shooting range.

    In response to that assertion, I'd like to point out the recent incident in Georgia where a woman successfully defended herself and her two nine year old children from a crowbar wielding intruder. She fired all six rounds from her .38 revolver, striking the man in the face and neck with five rounds, after retreating into a crawl space with her kids to avoid him. Yet, the intruder was able to flee the home and drive off. Five .38 caliber rounds did not instantly incapacitate him. Luckily, he did not choose to continue to press the attack, instead opting to flee.

    http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/01/...del-gun-owner/

    What if there had been more than one intruder? What if she had hit with fewer of her six rounds, or perhaps missed with all of them? A Glock 19 with 15 rounds in the magazine, and one in the chamber, would have given her 10 more rounds, and much better capability of defending herself and her children. Also, a couple of spare magazines kept handy would provide far quicker reloads, than even speedloaders can offer with revolvers.

    Many people do not have the time, or can afford, to frequent a shooting range to keep their pistol marksmanship sharp. High capacity magazines give a less skilled shooter a greater chance of disabling an intruder. I agree that anyone who assumes the awesome responsibility of keeping a loaded firearm in their homes, or legally carried concealed on their person, should train enough with the weapon to be as proficient as possible. But, even hundreds of hours of shooting at static paper targets cannot ensure deadly accuracy with a handgun, when the targets are violently animated, charging at you with a knife, or firing back at you. When confronted with a life threatening situation, the adrenaline flows preparing us for for "fight or flight". Heart rates soar, and blood flow is restricted from the extremeties to mitigate blood loss when injured. There is a loss of fine motor control, which makes hitting anything with a pistol even more difficult. All of which makes choosing a pump action 12 gauge shotgun, or an AR-15 with 30 round magazines a better choice for home defense, than a revolver. A long gun is much more accurate and controllable, because it has a much longer sight radius (the distance between the front and rear sight), a longer barrel that stabilizes the projectile/s for a longer time, and is steadied against the shoulder. It also justifies high capacity magazines.

    One could maximize one's firepower, within the proposed 10 round limitiation, by choosing the largest caliber handguns available, such as .45 ACP or 10mm, as opposed to 9mm or .40 S&W. However, the larger the caliber, the greater the recoil, and thus increased challenge to accurate shot placement.

    The medical examiner on the scene at Sandy Hook reported that the bodies he examined had been shot with the Bushmaster 5.56mm rifle 3 to 11 times. The most widely available magazine for that rifle hold 30 rounds (though there are some higher capacity magazines and drums that hold 40, 60, or even 100 rounds). So, even with the 30 round capacity, Adam Lanza swapped out magazines several times to kill 26 people. Would the carnage have been lessened if he only had 10 round magazines? Would he have been mauled by an organized pile on of rallying 6 year olds, if he'd had to swap magazines more frequently? Or, would his mother have opted for purchasing a higher caliber rifle, like 7.62mm or even larger, if the advantage of higher capacity wasn't legally available? If so called "assault" rifles were banned altogether (like they were in the state of CO at the time), and Adam Lanza had instead carried the 12 gauge shotgun into the school that day (that was in the trunk of his car), would the death toll have been any less? 12 gauge 00 Buck contains nine .33 caliber pellets in a single shell, which is capable of killing a man the size of Hulk Hogan, and any six year old. The magazine tube on my Mossberg "Persuader" 12 gauge can hold 7 shells, plus one chambered. One can outfit the shotgun with shell carriers on the receiver, and a sling with loops that hold shells, and wear bandoleers over your shoulder that hold at least 50 shells. It's not that difficult to slip shells into the shotgun, loading as you're firing.

    Competition pistol shooters can slap fresh magazines into their semi-auto pistols in the blink of an eye. Limiting magazines to 10 rounds won't make a dent in the death tolls of these rampage shooters. They'll just bring more magazines, and more pistols, and probably opt for higher calibers. A single well placed .45 ACP is plenty lethal.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrieferKiller View Post
    Five .38 caliber rounds did not instantly incapacitate him. Luckily, he did not choose to continue to press the attack, instead opting to flee.
    Choose? Opting?

    The guy was on the floor begging the woman to stop shooting him. The only reason she emptied the revolver is because her husband was on the phone with her, repeatedly telling her to "shoot him again".

    One shot would have sufficed. Dude wanted to get the hell out of there.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    Also, my previous post in another thread.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    I'd like to ask you and the wonderful *ahem* Senator Lindsay Graham this question: What do you intend to say to the grieving parents of murdered children #11, 12, 13, 14, 15, etc. when you wouldn't agree to pass a bill limiting the rounds in a magazine to 10 rounds? What exactly will your words be?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    A single well placed .45 ACP is plenty lethal.
    ...which is why my Colt 1911, is my weapon of choice....

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrieferKiller View Post

    Many people do not have the time, or can afford, to frequent a shooting range to keep their pistol marksmanship sharp. High capacity magazines give a less skilled shooter a greater chance of disabling an intruder.
    I'm sure you would agree that cops not only have the time, they're required to find it, and, it's paid for.
    They don't keep their jobs if they ain't proficient in the use of their firearms, supposed to highly skilled in the art of shootin' bad guys azzzes off in fact, but police have proven time and time and time and time again and again and again, that they often, waayyyyy too often, can't hit the side of a f'n barn...want me to find you the statistic regarding how many bullets per kill it takes in war, with very highly trained, extremely motivated, professionally equipt and prepared in each & every way, soldiers?
    Just another freakin' tool for the N.itwit R.ifle A.ss'ociation, oh, and I really think you should seek some help, and by the sound of it, perhaps some kleenex.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrieferKiller View Post
    Many people do not have the time, or can afford, to frequent a shooting range to keep their pistol marksmanship sharp. High capacity magazines give a less skilled shooter a greater chance of disabling an intruder.
    I think I'd rather that someone just get murdered in a home invasion than have them spraying bullets all through the neighborhood. One dead is better than... well, how many bullets are in that thing, anyway?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    I have to agree with Sepia.

    I don't personally believe that you should be shooting anything if you don't reasonably believe that you will hit the target. On the whole, a single shot or a "Hey, jerk, I have a gun!" would be enough to stop a robber. People typically do not want to die, and that lizard part of your brain takes over. In this instance, if there was another intruder, I think his buddy would have gotten the hell out of there after hearing his friend screaming in agony after being shot.

    Spraying 15 or 30 bullets into a neighborhood is reckless and stupid. People die from ricochets, or get shot by them, frequently enough. The home defender would become a defendant in a murder trial. Last I checked, collateral damage is not an acceptable argument in court.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    Many people do not have the time, or can afford, to frequent a shooting range to keep their pistol marksmanship sharp.
    But they have the money to buy firearms and the bullets. Priorities, priorities.

    An unskilled marksman with a gun in hand is an irresponsible idiot, no matter how well-intentioned they are. This is why I'm in favor of mandatory gun marksmanship and safety training classes. No certificate of completion; no license for said gun. No license and you're considered a felon. Jail. Fines. Revocation of all other gun licenses for mandatory two years or more. End of discussion.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sometimes 10 rounds isn't enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Sawyer View Post
    This is why I'm in favor of mandatory gun marksmanship and safety training classes. No certificate of completion; no license for said gun. No license and you're considered a felon. Jail. Fines. Revocation of all other gun licenses for mandatory two years or more. End of discussion.
    A felon? Really?

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