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Thread: what is god to you/what do you revere?

  1. #181
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by not_nadine View Post
    Well, the Pope resigned.
    Fist time that's happened in 600 years. I've started a new thread about it in case anyone wants to discuss that topic without creating too many side topics here.


  2. #182
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by not_nadine View Post
    Well, the Pope resigned.

    Ah yes, I heard about that this morning.

  3. #183
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Gray View Post
    To be fair Vickilynn there are people who consider themselves (and call themselves) Christians that do not think the Bible is the infallible word of God. These people believe in God and Jesus Christ as their savior. They simply don't agree that the Bible, written by men, is free of all flaw or human misunderstanding of the divine word. I only point this out because you are defining Christian the way YOU want to define it, disfranchising lots of folks. I expect there are lots of Christian denominations that you would (for other reasons) also consider not "real" Christians. We are back at that notion of "faith" again aren't we, as well as the notion of some people being better than others.
    Thanks for your viewpoint. I believe there are many people in this world that may consider themselves to be such but the only valid...imho....definition of what makes a person a Christian is God's which we find in the Bible....which I and a good many others do accept as God's infallible word. The term (Christian) is used very generically today and can be made to mean whatever someone wants it to. The Bible WAS penned by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. God is still the true Author in my view.

  4. #184
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Thanks for your viewpoint. I believe there are many people in this world that may consider themselves to be such but the only valid...imho....definition of what makes a person a Christian is God's which we find in the Bible....which I and a good many others do accept as God's infallible word. The term (Christian) is used very generically today and can be made to mean whatever someone wants it to. The Bible WAS penned by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. God is still the true Author in my view.
    The Bible's definition of Christian, however, is pretty vague, encompassing anyone who accepts Christ as their savior and strives to live according to the gospel he preached. The idea that one must accept the Bible as the 100 percent infallible word of God is not even supported or taught in the Bible. My faith has as one of its articles of faith the following, "We believe the Bible to be the Word of God, so far as it is translated correctly." In my view, this makes a lot more sense. The Bible, as originally penned by the ancient prophets and inspired men, was correct, but over the years, the text and the message was changed or altered due to the extrapolations of men, of corrupt politicians with agendas and simply due to poor translations and mistakes. It's hard for me to accept it as 100 percent infallible because one then would have to account for the many contradictions (like the two conflicting accounts of Judas' death) the failed prophecies (like the Old Testament prophecy that the city of Tyre would be destroyed and be a desolate wasteland forever, then finding that in the New Testament, it is a bustling seaport city) and most importantly, I'd expect an inerrant, infallible book that came directly from God to speak more plainly on matters of doctrine and morality. It's hard to accept the Bible as such if the text is so vague so as to destroy any hope of deriving its true meaning, especially in light of the thousands of ways different faith traditions interpret it.

  5. #185
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
    Thanks for your viewpoint. I believe there are many people in this world that may consider themselves to be such but the only valid...imho....definition of what makes a person a Christian is God's which we find in the Bible....which I and a good many others do accept as God's infallible word. The term (Christian) is used very generically today and can be made to mean whatever someone wants it to. The Bible WAS penned by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. God is still the true Author in my view.
    All these are opinions, and as such as valid as you or whomever wants to make them. You have to admit there is a certain irony here. Let me demonstrate with sentence by sentence analysis. I will bold or highlight certain words to show emphasis as I quote you:

    I believe there are many people in this world that may consider themselves to be such but the only valid...imho....definition of what makes a person a Christian is God's which we find in the Bible....which I and a good many others do accept as God's infallible word.

    You follow this with:

    The term (Christian) is used very generically today and can be made to mean whatever someone wants it to.

    I apologize for the redundancy of quoting your whole passage at the top and then pulling these bits out. What I'm curious about is whether you are able to discern the problem or humor within your own paragraph? What I'm pointing out (and in doing so I'm not trying to be snide) is that you yourself and those you identify as agreeing with you are doing the EXACT thing you are talking about are you not? If I were to ask you how you know you are right and they are wrong, you would probably just say something to the effect that you "know" it. Of course, I expect people who believe differently feel the same way.

    I'm not trying to shake your beliefs. I don't even think such a thing is possible. What I am trying to do is engage you in a discussion of philosophical and religious ideas that go outside our personal world view. You will note that I have never stated whether I agree with you or disagree with you. I've made no mention of my personal beliefs at all. This is largely because my "personal" bias is irrelevant to the issue. Truth remains truth whether I (or you) believe in it or not. This means that you and I (or anyone) should be able to have a discussion about philosophy or religion that goes beyond either:

    1. I just "know" it.
    2. The Bible tells me so.

    A truth so profound should be reveal itself in more ways than that. More to the point, you and I (or anyone) should be able to put into words stronger arguments. If we "know" something we should be able to articulate why. Do you follow? Clearly you and I have some great differences of opinion. The key ones have to do with social grace. I, for example, am comfortable telling people what I believe but I can do so (and certainly choose to do so) in a way that doesn't belittle or attack the beliefs of others. I've always been of the opinion that if you can't build yourself (or your point) up without tearing something else down, you don't have anything worth talking about in the first place. In the post you made above, you make it quite clear (as if you hadn't already) what you think of MOST of the world. What called you to state your personal beliefs in just this way?

  6. #186
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    first of all...thank you, LG...your missive, especially from " ..and most importantly...' spot on perfect !

    and RG...tremendous amount of applause, all from me, maybe, but there nonetheless...too bad it will fall upon oft deaf ears...

    vickie...can one get more dismissive of anothers religious belief than "the term (christian) is used very generically today and can be made to mean whatever someone wants it to"...

    in one fell swopp...you've condemned anyone who doesn't think/feel the exactly way YOU do...

    my...i must've missed that part of the good book when i read it...what page is that on...

    that one, sole, only, true, definition...i'll have to ask my catholic relatives about that...or my jewish friends...my baptists neighbors...or my sventh day adventist coworkers...'cause, obviously..if they don't think exactly like you...they are all doomed to eternal hell

    but, then again, it's been said the road to hell is paved with good intentions...i didn't know it was paved so well with stones of ego

  7. #187
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_last_gunslinger View Post
    The Bible's definition of Christian, however, is pretty vague, encompassing anyone who accepts Christ as their savior and strives to live according to the gospel he preached. The idea that one must accept the Bible as the 100 percent infallible word of God is not even supported or taught in the Bible. My faith has as one of its articles of faith the following, "We believe the Bible to be the Word of God, so far as it is translated correctly." In my view, this makes a lot more sense. The Bible, as originally penned by the ancient prophets and inspired men, was correct, but over the years, the text and the message was changed or altered due to the extrapolations of men, of corrupt politicians with agendas and simply due to poor translations and mistakes. It's hard for me to accept it as 100 percent infallible because one then would have to account for the many contradictions (like the two conflicting accounts of Judas' death) the failed prophecies (like the Old Testament prophecy that the city of Tyre would be destroyed and be a desolate wasteland forever, then finding that in the New Testament, it is a bustling seaport city) and most importantly, I'd expect an inerrant, infallible book that came directly from God to speak more plainly on matters of doctrine and morality. It's hard to accept the Bible as such if the text is so vague so as to destroy any hope of deriving its true meaning, especially in light of the thousands of ways different faith traditions interpret it.
    Doesn't it say that God is able to preserve His word? If so, then it must exist today. And if God is infallible, which He is, why wouldn't His own book be infallible?

    Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” KJVMore: http://www.acts1711.com/inspire.htm

    http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/long-preserved.html

  8. #188
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    ummm...that's nice...and all sort of missing the point, miss V

    dodging truth does not make a lie better

    i've often thought that if the bible (or any religious text) were the infalible word of god...any body could pick it up and be able to read it...even though the pages be blank...and the book would speak to them...communicate with them on a level far beyond what any written word could ever do without the need for an interpretor...be it preist or whatever

    the very same book would read total truth to a muslim, christian, buddhist or native american indian: god would speak and the soul would hear

    that does not describe the bible as we know it today or during the last 2000+ years...not even close

    some people worship this man made book...worship it...and, being man made, it is as false an idol as any

  9. #189
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    This is getting like the gun thread.

    I was raised Catholic. Went to Calthoic schools. Had Nuns teach me. I really don't remember any of them teaching straight out of the Bible.


    The Ark? Really? and Apple? C'mon

    Fables.

  10. #190
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
    Doesn't it say that God is able to preserve His word? If so, then it must exist today. And if God is infallible, which He is, why wouldn't His own book be infallible?

    Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” KJVMore: http://www.acts1711.com/inspire.htm

    http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/long-preserved.html
    You are getting boring. I wish there was a nice way to say it. Let me paraphrase what you just said. "The bible says it is the infallible word of God and since the Bible is infallible it must be right." This is called circular reasoning. This is a logical fallacy of the worst kind. Honestly, is this the best you can do? How can you expect to bear witness effectively to anyone with such tripe? Are you incapable of talking about your faith in your OWN words? Are you incapable of describing it in any way that doesn't simply parrot what you read in a book or was taught to you rote? You demonstrate no depth of feeling, no actual conviction, and cherry pick quotes with little context.

    The only thing you are managing to do is sound like you miss the forest for the trees. I've gone back through your posts. Nowhere do you talk of lifting people up, good works, personal revelation, or anything that those within the Bible seem to value. Your comments seem to be nothing more than direct or indirect snipes at all those "other" people who are doing it wrong. I could play proverb with you (a game I can play very well) all day long, but then I would be engaging in the same, lazy intellectual deceptions. You have managed to offend (and anger) many here. I am not among them. You are merely boring me to tears. I want good conversations wherein I feel my education has been expanded, or at the least I have been allowed a glimpse of the world through another set of eyes. You haven't shown us anything. You are evoking the most embarrassing emotion of all. You are making us pity you.

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