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what is god to you/what do you revere? - Page 21

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Thread: what is god to you/what do you revere?

  1. #201
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    Jan 2013
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    Man, I gotta stay away from this thread. Faith is fundamentally devoid of logic and therefore the only debate that can be held are among those that agree the faith is truth and concerning small subtleties within it.

    This is sad for me too, because I know the bible better than most of the cloth. But, people of faith are so easily offended by contradictory statements to this faith that is supposed to be such a strength inducing thing.
    I should probably stay away, too.

  2. #202
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
    Ok, I get it. I'm boring and you don't accept the Bible as the infallible word of God and some think certain things in the Bible are fables.
    No. I refer you back to my posts. I don't, at any time, say that I don't accept the Bible as infallible. I don't mention my personal beliefs at all. What I have asked (and questioned) is your apparently refusal (or inability) to talk about these things in your own words. I don't think it is good manners to just parrot proverbs at people nor try to shove them off with a link to some other site which simply repeats your premise. The topic of this thread is "What is God to You?" So far the only conclusion we can draw is that you think God is a really good book. Clearly God means more to you than that. If you are going to chime into a thread like this, we want things in your own words.

    I do accept it as the infallible word of God so I guess there's not much more to say so carry on with whatever you want to say about me. No offense, but I really don't care if you pity me.
    The problem is that you aren't following me on any level. I don't pity you because of your beliefs. For all you know, I might have the same beliefs. I feel sorry for you because you seem to have hobbled yourself in both critical thinking and expression. I think you are capable of more. Because I think you are capable of more I'm bored and frustrated to get same old "canned" answers. I have to assume that you are either purposely refusing to give anything but a canned answer, or you are incapable. Those sorts of things evoke pity from me where little else does.

    There's only one truth for everyone whether they believe it or not, not an undending number of "truths" according to what you choose to believe. There is no "create your own reality."
    A good question is why you assume that you aren't simply "choosing" to believe something, i.e. creating your own reality. In your OWN words, what makes your subjective reality truth?

    I know you'll say I'm arrogant but that's just plain common sense. The grass doesn't change from green to purple just because you choose to believe it's purple.
    Of course you are arrogant; so am I. Of all the failings of humankind, pride has ever been our constant companion. Even when we try to live a good life and do what is right, we end up taking pride in it. I do want to talk to you a bit about truth and perception though. Grass does change color from person to person, although it rarely has anything to do with choice. A person who is colorblind doesn't see green. Most people do not see the same shades and hues even when they do see green. Our equipment, like our fingerprints, is slightly different. I'm not trying to be glib here. There are different truths for different people because how they interact with reality is different. Some people are deathly allergic to peanuts as the sad story of a girl dying from giving her boyfriend a kiss an attest (he had eaten some recently). Some people are deaf. Some people are blind. As touched on before, some cannot read traffic lights or signs the same as you and I because of the color. What is true for you and I is NOT true for them. I really think you should think about this for a bit because it bears on your "black and white" view of reality.

    The earth doesn't become flat because there are people who believe that it is. The law of gravity doesn't suspend itself because someone thinks they can jump off a cliff, flap their arms and fly. There are absolute truths and I believe the Bible to be the absolute truth. If you don't, that's your perogative. Have a nice day.
    Continuing with our discussion of perception versus reality, I think we all know what you actually meant when you said "have a nice day" above. I would like to point out, playing Devil's Advocate if the terms isn't too tongue and cheek for this particular debate, that the world was once believed FLAT and defended tooth and nail by the religious because to believe the world was round and circled the sun was not compatible with the Bible. If I wanted to go even more out on a limb I might suggest that God could make the world flat on a whim, allow people to fly, walk on water, turn water into wine, and bring the dead back to life simply because people have faith (i.e. believe in it). Surely you don't disagree that God can do those things? To push my commentary as far as it can go, if God is the Alpha and the Omega, then nothing is impossible or set in stone beyond God's will. The Bible shows God changing his mind from time to time. The Bible is infallible so we know that God does that. God's truth is the same as God's will, so we know that truth is also the whim of God and thus changeable. Would you like me to cite chapter and verse of the many places where God changes his mind? I doubt it since you do seem to know your Bible and already know what I'm talking about.

    Religion is always a thorny subject. I appreciate that Ms. Mod has allowed us to even have this debate. I'm sure it is nothing but a bother and stress to her to have to read our posts (many of which probably straddle the line). I think you are a bright person. I have faith that if you really wanted to, you would be able to bear witness in a way which impresses those who listen to it. I believe you can talk about what you believe without having to discuss what is wrong with what other people believe. I find it sad that you don't make the attempt because clearly you have things you want to say. You appeared out of thin air not so long ago just to complain about the use of foul language in a fictional work. You and I have something in common. We are blowhards. I'm just suggesting, as a long time self-righteous, arrogant blowhard, that you can do a better job.

  3. #203
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    Nov 2008
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    But, people of faith are so easily offended by contradictory statements to this faith that is supposed to be such a strength inducing thing.
    That's a wee bit unfair to group us all the same, Hoss. I have faith in God but I'm not offended by anybody who disbelieves/disagrees with my religion. Although, I don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, for many of the reasons stated previously in this thread. I also disagree with the notion that people must attend Church in order to pray and prove they are a true believer. A person can pray anywhere, and at any time. I don't go to church now, in fact the only time I've been in a church in the past four years has been for weddings and funerals. Surprisingly, a thunderbolt from God didn't strike me down! I truly don't care what religion other people follow, or if they even believe at all, my faith is a personal thing and not something I feel the need to defend. Live and let live.

  4. #204
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
    It doesn't say that it's impossible for men to try and alter God's word. It's a warning of what will happen if they do. God's word cannot be altered in reality. That doesn't stop men from attempting it. For instance, the Jehovah's Witnesses have their own Bible where they've altered it to conform to their beliefs. I've even heard that the gays were going to create their own Bible, supposedly to take out the parts that condemn what they do. Whether they've actually done that, I don't know, it's just something I heard. They can print up new "Bibles" and add or take away or change what they want but that doesn't actually alter God's true word one iota which they will find out.
    If all that's true, then how do you know that your bible wasn't altered centuries ago?

  5. #205
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
    It doesn't say that it's impossible for men to try and alter God's word. It's a warning of what will happen if they do. God's word cannot be altered in reality. That doesn't stop men from attempting it. For instance, the Jehovah's Witnesses have their own Bible where they've altered it to conform to their beliefs. I've even heard that the gays were going to create their own Bible, supposedly to take out the parts that condemn what they do. Whether they've actually done that, I don't know, it's just something I heard. They can print up new "Bibles" and add or take away or change what they want but that doesn't actually alter God's true word one iota which they will find out.
    Hmmm. I really don't like the tone of this post, but that's your opinion so hey~ho.

    I have a friend who is a Jehovah's Witness, and have many homosexual friends--male and female--and despite being a Catholic I still respect their beliefs/relationships. I wonder if this means I won't ever make it through those pearly white gates?

  6. #206
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    the Jehovah's Witnesses have their own Bible where they've altered it to conform to their beliefs.
    Do you also believe that the Book of Mormon is really Cliff Notes for the Bible?

    I've even heard that the gays were going to create their own Bible, supposedly to take out the parts that condemn what they do.
    Ooooh. I don't like where you're headed with that. Mind that you don't start casting stones at a part of the population of which you appear to know virtually nothing. I've very dear friends who are gay and they wouldn't consider believing that straights were out to create *their* own Bible, cutting out the parts that condemn what they do: judge, lie, murder, steal, rape, pillage, fornicate, just about all the things the Ten Commandments would have us not do.

    Whether they've actually done that, I don't know, it's just something I heard.
    Good to know you won't operate on hearsay. Don't always believe what you're told second-hand. Until you actually see a copy of a Gay Bible or a Jehovah's Witness Bible, I'd think twice about spreading rumours.

    Then again, I always thought the latest copy of Vogue *was* the Gay Bible, so sue me. If there were ever a Gay Bible that were published, I'm sure it would be f-a-b-u-l-o-u-s and that the pictures would show Jesus rocking the latest toga look. Three Around-the-World-Backsnaps for that! ***

    They can print up new "Bibles" and add or take away or change what they want but that doesn't actually alter God's true word one iota which they will find out.
    Will it take a burning bush and a disembodied voice for someone to find out if God's word hasn't been altered? How will they find out? Ally said she hasn't been to church in over four years and she hasn't been struck down by God in the meantime. I wouldn't know a complete or abridged Bible if it hit me in the face, because I haven't always been a student of it, but here I am to tell about it. -I'm not being disrespectful; I'm just asking.

  7. #207
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
    I should probably stay away, too.
    Please don't infer judgement in my posts. Tone is so hard to project through a text medium. I wasn't attacking your faith. As an American I fully support your right to believe as you see fit. I was just pointing out that when you have contradictions in your statements or views, people will find them.

    To me, no man has gotten close to what is really out there. Even if the Judeo-Christian version of God exists, the idea that we could begin to understand and then boil down to a Cliff Note version such a being is just fallacy in and of itself.

    In the end, it's what is right for you and what I or anyone else thinks really doesn't matter.

    "I'm the one that's gonna have to die when it's time for me to die. So let me live my life the way I want to." ~ Jimi Hendrix (from "If 6 was 9")

  8. #208
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Ally~ View Post
    That's a wee bit unfair to group us all the same, Hoss. I have faith in God but I'm not offended by anybody who disbelieves/disagrees with my religion. Although, I don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, for many of the reasons stated previously in this thread. I also disagree with the notion that people must attend Church in order to pray and prove they are a true believer. A person can pray anywhere, and at any time. I don't go to church now, in fact the only time I've been in a church in the past four years has been for weddings and funerals. Surprisingly, a thunderbolt from God didn't strike me down! I truly don't care what religion other people follow, or if they even believe at all, my faith is a personal thing and not something I feel the need to defend. Live and let live.
    Yeah, sorry. I should have said "many of faith". D'Oh!!

    You know I love thee, Ally...

  9. #209
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Michigan
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Good to know you won't operate on hearsay. Don't always believe what you're told second-hand. Until you actually see a copy of a Gay Bible or a Jehovah's Witness Bible, I'd think twice about spreading rumours.
    I think she may be technically right on this. The Jehovah's Witnesses do have their own bible which is called the New World Translation. There is still a considerable amount of scholarly debate as to whether or not it's accurate or if it does skew the Bible more in favor with their doctrines.

    The "Gay Bible," is also a thing. It's called the Queen James Version. Essentially, it's just the KJV but with four or five verses that condemn homosexuality changed to what they claim is a more accurate and accepting translation. But, since I can't read Koine Greek and compare the translations, I have no idea how close...or far these above mentioned translations are.

  10. #210
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    Jun 2009
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    Tennessee
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    *cue music* Reach out and touch faith with Depeche Mode.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1xrNaTO1bI

    Lyrics:

    Reach out, touch faith!

    Your own personal jesus,
    Someone to hear your prayers,
    Your own personal jesus,
    Someone to hear your prayers,
    Someone who's there.

    Feeling unknown
    And you're all alone,
    Flesh and bone by the telephone,
    Pick up [the] receiver, I'll make you a believer.

    Take second best,
    Put me to the test,
    Things on your chest,
    You need to confess,
    I will deliver,
    You know I'm a forgiver.

    Reach out, touch faith!
    Reach out, touch faith!

    Your own personal jesus,
    Someone to hear your prayers,
    Your own personal jesus,
    Someone to hear your prayers,
    Someone who's there.

    Feeling unknown
    And you're all alone,
    Flesh and bone by the telephone,
    Pick up [the] receiver, I'll make you a believer.

    I will deliver,
    You know I'm a forgiver.

    Reach out, touch faith!
    Your own personal jesus
    Reach out, touch faith!

    Reach out!
    Reach out, touch faith!
    Reach out, touch faith!

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