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Thread: what is god to you/what do you revere?

  1. #241
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    I consider go to be a.... Atom, the atom giveth and the atom taketh away nuth said. Thankee and long days and pleasant nights

  2. #242
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Ahhhhh. Leviticus.

    So if the entire bible is to be believed...

    Do you eat bacon?
    Pigs are unclean.

    Wear cotton blends?
    That ain't ok either.

    Cut your hair or shave?
    Also a problem.

    Or in Deuteronomy, you're supposed to kill others who don't have the same religion. I assume you don't go around murdering heathens. Of course, if you do, let me know, so I can stay out of your town because I am on your list. I am also an artist, and break the 2nd commandment on a regular basis. Everyday, in fact.

    I suspect you eat pigmeat and wear cotton blends and cut your hair, because those passages are absolutely bonkers. Almost every Christian I know takes bits and pieces of the bible. What I am saying is that most (probably all) modern believers take out the inconvenient parts and don't follow them. And honestly, isn't all sin equal sin in the eye's of your god? Other than the 10 commandments, but homosexuality isn't on that list. So the pigmeat you eat is on the same level of sin as homosexuality. Do correct me if I misunderstand.
    I don't really see that this would be a problem for Christians who hold to biblical inerrancy. One can still believe these things to have been revealed by God while believing still that they are not required to follow them. The things you have listed are all part of the 613 commandments pertaining to the Mosaic Law or covenant. This covenant, given after the Israelites were delivered from Egyptian bondage, included God's promise that He would make Israel "a Kingdom of priests and a holy nation," if they would harken unto the law given by His prophet, Moses. This covenant (which serves as a sort of contract) was between God and the children of Israel only, so Gentiles were under no such obligation. This notion is reaffirmed during the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem around 50 A.D. where the Apostle Peter (and the other apostles) came to the conclusion that keeping the Law of Moses was not essential for Gentile converts to Christianity. Some portions of the law were still considered important for the gentiles to keep (prohibitions against fornication and idol worship) but it is generally assumed that Christians are not under the same covenant.

  3. #243
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_last_gunslinger View Post
    This notion is reaffirmed during the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem around 50 A.D. where the Apostle Peter (and the other apostles) came to the conclusion that keeping the Law of Moses was not essential for Gentile converts to Christianity. Some portions of the law were still considered important for the gentiles to keep (prohibitions against fornication and idol worship) but it is generally assumed that Christians are not under the same covenant.
    This is all true, however, we should still apply our critical thinking skills to this should we not? Motivation and intent matter. Whose motivations are being considered, the divine or that of mortals? That same Council brought up the fact that it was very difficult to get converts from the Gentile because of the strict rules. Relaxing the rules was done for temporal purposes and not via divine inspiration. The Bible doesn't say anything about exceptions or my rules only apply to these people. Changing the rules to get more people paying in seems somewhat cynical and not at all in keeping with the lofty ideals often espoused by some. If these commandments are holy and true in the absolute sense, it would seem they would be universal truths.

  4. #244
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    It still strikes me as a lot of picking and choosing, especially if one claims to believe the bible front to back, but if the whole religion is founded on picking and choosing then I guess it works for them. Thank you for the clarification, sir.

    And I just realized I used an apostrophe on a plural. The interwebs are eating my braaaaiiiinnnnnn!!!!!

  5. #245
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    This is all true, however, we should still apply our critical thinking skills to this should we not? Motivation and intent matter. Whose motivations are being considered, the divine or that of mortals? That same Council brought up the fact that it was very difficult to get converts from the Gentile because of the strict rules. Relaxing the rules was done for temporal purposes and not via divine inspiration. The Bible doesn't say anything about exceptions or my rules only apply to these people. Changing the rules to get more people paying in seems somewhat cynical and not at all in keeping with the lofty ideals often espoused by some. If these commandments are holy and true in the absolute sense, it would seem they would be universal truths.
    I'm certainly not attempting to devalue critical thinking on these issues; I'm merely attempting to show that, in this specific instance regarding an infallible bible, that a failure on the part of a Christian to keep the Mosaic Law is not a serious threat, in my opinion. One could still choose to believe that God gave these laws, while rejecting the idea that they are universally applicable. As to the motivation behind the council's decision, that's up for debate, and depending on how one views its underlying purpose, one will come to a potentially different understanding. I believe that this council of Apostles was a divinely led gathering, and believe that the edicts set forth in the forthcoming Apostolic Decree were from God. Holding such a belief eliminates any conflict regarding this specific issue. If you reject the meeting and believe it to be a way to gain gentile converts, then I could see where there would be problems regarding the authenticity of the Bible.

  6. #246
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    It still strikes me as a lot of picking and choosing, especially if one claims to believe the bible front to back, but if the whole religion is founded on picking and choosing then I guess it works for them. Thank you for the clarification, sir.
    And I think you raise a very good point, one that many Christians need to consider, that is, deciding which parts of the Bible are meant to be followed and which ones aren't. Homosexuality is considered a sin by most, but very few think it is a sin fora woman to talk in church, even though the New Testament expresses this sentiment. Why is one followed and the other ignored could make for an interesting and thought provoking topic, and your example serves as a good illustration of this principle. I just don't believe that citing the Mosaic Law is the best example to disprove Biblical Infallibility, since it does not necessitate a disbelief in those laws, only a belief that the Bible essentially lets Christians off the hook. There is so much more in there that biblical inerrantists need to address first. We have, for example, two accounts of the suicide of Judas, one where he hanged himself, another where he threw himself off a cliff, hit the ground and his 'bowels gushed out.' These seem at odds to me, though I've heard attempts to harmonize them, saying that the rope broke and he fell to his death, but that doesn't seem very likely to me. This may be a small matter and one that does no have serious theological implications, but if a Book is touted as being perfect, I'd expect a lack of any and all errors, regardless of how insignificant.

  7. #247
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    God could exist as far as I'm concerned, but I don't spend time thinking it over. Whatever is, just is, you know what I mean? I do think that 99% or organized religions are a scam to make money and a way to control the masses.

  8. #248
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_last_gunslinger View Post
    I'm certainly not attempting to devalue critical thinking on these issues; I'm merely attempting to show that, in this specific instance regarding an infallible bible, that a failure on the part of a Christian to keep the Mosaic Law is not a serious threat, in my opinion. One could still choose to believe that God gave these laws, while rejecting the idea that they are universally applicable. As to the motivation behind the council's decision, that's up for debate, and depending on how one views its underlying purpose, one will come to a potentially different understanding. I believe that this council of Apostles was a divinely led gathering, and believe that the edicts set forth in the forthcoming Apostolic Decree were from God. Holding such a belief eliminates any conflict regarding this specific issue. If you reject the meeting and believe it to be a way to gain gentile converts, then I could see where there would be problems regarding the authenticity of the Bible.
    This is the next layer of the onion. If we got his route (as you suggest above) it means that the Bible is more less without meaning except that which is applied externally. It means people today just pick whatever individuals parts they like, interpretations they already agree with, and make the divine word fit them rather than the other way around. No matter how we try to dance around the subject, the Bible is either:

    1. Infallible.
    2. Fallible.
    3. A tool through which external meaning is applied not unlike a deck of Tarot cards.

    Let's linger on that third option. If, as you suggest, the book can be infallible because the meanings and rules change but only when divinely inspired, the Bible is being transformed into Ouija Board wherein a select few (the loudest or most theatrical) get to decide what means what. In such a situation, how exactly is a normal person to tell the divine truth from a charlatan? The Bible becomes like statistics wherein anyone can prove nearly anything they want.

    The funny thing about #3 is that is solves all the logical problems for people claiming #1. If you believe the Bible is infallible, and you can make it thus simply by interpreting it however makes it true, you have accomplished a self-fulfilling prophecy. We see this discussion come up very often when people discuss Genesis. How many days did it take God to everything? It is measured in days. Is this literal? Some would argue yes. But those seeking to reconcile science with theology counter with, "ah but what does a day mean to God?" They can interpret the statement in a way that still can be supported with just a little bit of legwork.

    In short, #1 and #3 are indistinguishable from each other to most people because their personal bias doesn't allow them to see the distinction.

  9. #249
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    I still do not understand how it can be the word of God. Jesus gave us guidelines to follow....such as living life in the way he led his. His ideas were written by his discipiles who were men. They each had their own understanding on what should be put down. Next came the big church and a lot of the written word was edited...a nip here, a tuck here. Some parts were taking out altogether. The changes were geared to suit the needs of the Church. A lot of it was just plain politics in work.

    I can certainly not believe everything I read in the Bible. THere is all kinds of scientific and historical data to back me up on this. I am still a Christian though. I believe in the simple man from Galilee. He is the Son of God....my faith tells me . Faith is the only thing I have in that regard.

    As to doing the soup kitchens,etc, they do not have to all Christian. I enjoyed spending once a week doing a meal with Sai Baba here in the city. I would be just as happy to pick up a ladle in a Jewish shelter. I am living like my beliefs tell me to live....go do good stuff. In the end, the task is worthwhile. I would never preach to folks who are hungry and tired. I never preach anyway. Folks need food in their bellies and some cleans clothes on their backs.

  10. #250
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    Default Re: what is god to you?

    The interwebs are eating my braaaaiiiinnnnnn!!!!!

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