Warning: Function split() is deprecated in ..../includes/class_bootstrap.php(561) : eval()'d code on line 1
Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths - Page 15

This message board is only an archive. Click here to go to the current message board.

Page 15 of 86 FirstFirst ... 513141516172565 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 857

Thread: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

  1. #141
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    dublin ireland
    Posts
    1,329

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by cat in a bag View Post
    I normally stay out of political discussions, so first I just want to say that it is difficult for me to put my thoughts down.

    We are a gun owning household. My husband has several. Most of them are for hunting, I've talked about him being a hunter before. He has a couple that belonged to his grandfather, and they never get used. We have 2 handguns. I have recently learned how to handle one of them, because he is gone so much at night. He has always wanted me to learn, but I resisted. I could never imagine any situation where I might need to know how to use one. But my opinion on that has changed in recent months, my faith in the goodness of people has wavered. So I am now comfortable and knowledgeable enough to protect myself and my children if, heaven forbid, the need ever arose.

    They are all legal, registered weapons. We take the precautions necessary to keep our children safe, and they have each seen, not only what a gun will do to a paper target, but also what a gun will do to a living creature. They have all been along on hunting trips and have seen what happens when you point and shoot at a living thing. They are locked in a gun cabinet in our bedroom and no one goes down there unsupervised. But, we have been rethinking even that...and as soon as we are financially able, we will be buying a gun safe. We do have a small one for the handguns, but the rifles are on clear view, the gun cabinet is glass fronted. So we will be taking one step further and making sure that they are even more secure than they are now.

    I am torn between wanting to support what my husband believes in so very strongly, that it is his right to own them, and wanting to never, ever have to watch an event like Friday's unfold on the news again. Or like what happened in the mall earlier last week, or Aurora, or any of these terrible incidents. I know we are responsible owners, and would never do anything to hurt another human being with one of them, short of protecting ourselves and our children, but you don't know about the person next to you. How do you make sure the people who wish to do harm do not get their hands on a gun without also punishing the good, law abiding citizens? And here in Wyoming, the gun laws are pretty lenient. Anyone can carry without a concealed permit, although there are places, like schools where you cannot. Yes, there are background checks run when a purchase is made, but it takes 5 minutes, and you walk out with your gun.

    3 weeks ago, there was an incident at a Casper, Wyoming college, which is about 100 miles from us. A young man, who was also diagnosed as being autistic, killed his father's girlfriend with a compound bow, and then went to the college, where his father was an instructor and walked into his classroom and shot him with the bow, then stabbed him and then killed himself. His motive? He blamed his father for having him and "making" him autistic. People who want to cause harm always find a way.

    Whatever happens, whatever changes are made, I hope that good, law abiding citizens will not be punished for the actions of some who are not. But that is the problem...making that distinction. You just never know what the person next to you is thinking or will do.

    I apologize for the long post. I feel like I rambled without really saying anything. (Told ya...I'm no good at this stuff) Somehow, things need to change...but I think the very first thing is to reinforce in all of our kids respect and compassion for their fellow man. Without that, nothing is ever going to get any better, with or without guns.
    Couldn't agree more. While hunters and home protection really don't need assault rifles, there is no law that could have changed these awful events. Until people learn compassion and respect, then atrocities will continue.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator View Post
    And there has been yet another situation in which more people have lost their lives when firefighters were ambushed and shot, two fatally, in New York on Monday.
    I read yesterday that the Wikipedia reference-linkWestboro_Baptist_Church are planning on picketing the funerals of the firefighters. This group make me sick! A counter-protest is already being organised to try and discourage their actions, but the families of these people shouldn't have to see any protesters at their loved ones funerals. They were also going to protest the funeral of Sandy Hook's prinicipal; Dawn Hochsprung, but were scared away by a group of motorcyclists.

    I don't understand why this group are tolerated by the American government, and not recognised as a hate group, but maybe with all the recent signatures on the White House Petition site demanding they are viewed this way that will soon change. Here's a link if anybody wants to sign it. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d

    Ooh, and I can't believe people are demanding Piers Morgan should be deported from America all because he spoke his mind--and sense--regarding the gun control debate. So much for freedom of speech, eh? Very immature behaviour, almost like a child throwing it's toys out of the pram because they don't always have/get their own way...and these "people" own guns?? Quite a frightening thought really.

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    680

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    I personally don't think anything will change until sections of Americans get it out of their heads that it is not their god given right to own a gun. Constitutions can be changed no matter how unpopular that may be. America has to ask itself why do these mixed up kids choose to shoot people rather than stab people. Because guns are close to hand (most households have at least one gun, I have seen pics of whole families holding rifles etc and surplus placed on the floor). If the gun was not so easy to get hold of then this would not happen on the scale it does. It is far harder to stab someone (up close and personal) than shoot someone (further away and remote). And yes I have heard of bomb plots to blow up schools but they are few and far between because it is harder to do than just grabbing the family arms wear and heading off.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    outside the dome
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    imho, westboro and their members are a hate group...they are also about as anti-american a group as one would hope not to find anywhere in america...

    unfortunately...they do not exist within a vaccuum...there are too, too many...ahem... 'citizens' who have that amount of hate in their hearts of that magnitude and equal amounts of low-level stupidity to go along with it

    like...ummmmm........wayne lapierre

    all, rightly or wrongly, constitutionally protected

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    MDI
    Posts
    499

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    I have to say, the civility in this thread - despite obviously opposing opinions - is very heartening. We need a lovey sort of emoticon, but I guess this one will do.

    Many polls show that the majority of Americans support further gun control, so I think the question will be what kind and to what extent. Like most others, I don't see the need for 30-round clips/magazines or true assault weapons but, as Guido pointed out, bans often have little effect. I think the increased registration, fees, etc. are good ideas, and I would add that in many areas both open and concealed carry courses could use better/more extensive training for applicants.

    But I also see a lot of confusion and misinformation being shared (not necessarily on here, or on purpose). For one thing, the vast majority of hunting rifles, and several shotgun models, are semi-automatic and have been for nearly a century. Automatics - like machine guns - have been heavily regulated since the 1930s; the AR-15 and similar weapons used in these recent shootings were not automatics. Also, the AR-15 may look military-grade, but it is machined differently and fires generally .223 cartridges, the same as used in many other small-game rifles. It's sort of like a Ford Escort powertrain with a Mustang body. And while the U.S. clearly leads gun-related deaths in the developed world, homicide rates in general show much greater similarity. Overall, we still rank higher than Europe and Oceania, but not by a great deal - 4.2 against 3.5 per 100,000 people (UN). Homicides were down 16% between 2006 and 2010, and for the U.S. and Canada collectively, homicides are down 40% since 1995. (And before anyone claims that Canada is carrying us, individual numbers from the UN show homicides in both countries decreasing at the same rate. [UN]). If Wiki can be believed, the number of those killed in school shootings is also down, even including Newtown (not enough, clearly, but any progress is still progress). During these periods of decrease, there were also tens of millions of new gun purchases. In 2010, just over 600 people were killed by accidental gun discharges and, perhaps most telling, though the U.S. had 13,000 murders there were over 38,000 suicides (FBI; CDC). Pertinent gun/accessory control will likely help with all those numbers, but I think the big picture of firearm use is less bleak than often painted. I also think that, when suicides outnumber murders by almost 3-to-1, mental health is a much bigger concern than often acknowledged.

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, Ohio
    Posts
    17,667

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator View Post
    And there has been yet another situation in which more people have lost their lives when firefighters were ambushed and shot, two fatally, in New York on Monday. The gunman was using a Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle--the same kind used at the Sandy Hook shooting site. And again, this is most likely a situation where guns came into the hands of someone who was mentally unstable with the result that innocent people lost their lives. How many times must this happen before something is done?!

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new...ing/index.html
    ...AND the dude was an ex-con...so he HAD to have gotten his weaponry on the black market...I can't fathom him not being red flagged in the databases...

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, Ohio
    Posts
    17,667

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Ally~ View Post
    I read yesterday that the Wikipedia reference-linkWestboro_Baptist_Church are planning on picketing the funerals of the firefighters. This group make me sick! A counter-protest is already being organised to try and discourage their actions, but the families of these people shouldn't have to see any protesters at their loved ones funerals. They were also going to protest the funeral of Sandy Hook's prinicipal; Dawn Hochsprung, but were scared away by a group of motorcyclists.

    I don't understand why this group are tolerated by the American government, and not recognised as a hate group, but maybe with all the recent signatures on the White House Petition site demanding they are viewed this way that will soon change. Here's a link if anybody wants to sign it. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d

    Ooh, and I can't believe people are demanding Piers Morgan should be deported from America all because he spoke his mind--and sense--regarding the gun control debate. So much for freedom of speech, eh? Very immature behaviour, almost like a child throwing it's toys out of the pram because they don't always have/get their own way...and these "people" own guns?? Quite a frightening thought really.
    ...probably because of this line Ally...

    'we want less guns, not more'.
    ...to my mind-it's the TYPE of weapon or size of clip...not a wholesale banishing of "all" guns...again, rational discourse and decisions is all I ask...

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,847

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Ally~ View Post
    I read yesterday that the Wikipedia reference-linkWestboro_Baptist_Church are planning on picketing the funerals of the firefighters. This group make me sick! A counter-protest is already being organised to try and discourage their actions, but the families of these people shouldn't have to see any protesters at their loved ones funerals. They were also going to protest the funeral of Sandy Hook's prinicipal; Dawn Hochsprung, but were scared away by a group of motorcyclists.

    I don't understand why this group are tolerated by the American government, and not recognised as a hate group, but maybe with all the recent signatures on the White House Petition site demanding they are viewed this way that will soon change. Here's a link if anybody wants to sign it. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d
    I'm not sure what people are wanting from that petition. The FBI keeps a list of hate groups but does not publish it, and even if a hate group is recognized by the FBI, I think all that really means is that any threat or advocacy of force by such a group is investigated by the FBI. The activities of the WBC, as odious and repulsive as they are, have never culminated in violence, as far as I know. Nor do they appear to be advocating violence. Most of what is called "hate speech" is protected in the US unless it is defamatory, incitement to riot, or "fighting words." (I lifted all that from Wikipedia, by the way. I didn't just happen to know it.)

    Ooh, and I can't believe people are demanding Piers Morgan should be deported from America all because he spoke his mind--and sense--regarding the gun control debate. So much for freedom of speech, eh? Very immature behaviour, almost like a child throwing it's toys out of the pram because they don't always have/get their own way...and these "people" own guns?? Quite a frightening thought really.
    Isn't this two sides of the same coin? If we don't believe in freedom of speech for those we personally find most repulsive, how can we be said to believe in it at all, really? Every country, even the most repressive, allows speech in support of the majority opinion or official government positions. The WBC is a group nearly universally disliked by everyone except themselves, though they are very careful to never even appear to incite violence (they are lawyered up for a reason); as such, its existence is an excellent litmus test as to whether a society truly supports freedom of speech.

    Freedom of speech is so incredibly important, and yet, if it were put up to a majority vote, it would be made null and void by people in general who do not want to have to tolerate those they don't agree with. That doesn't sting until you suddenly find yourself on the unpopular side.

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Why hasn't anyone picketed the WBC? Now there's a thought! As far as Piers Morgan is concerned I view him as the bizarro Bill O'Rielly! He is rude and employs the same tactics as Bill O'Rielly as in trying to dominate the conversation and constantly interrupting. FWIW I don't like either of them. Maybe we can get a twofer.

    It's a personal thing; I have no patience for rude people, even those who may espouse a similar point of view as me.

    "We need to seek wise leaders who will seek common ground among Americans instead of dividing us further for political gain. As citizens, we must embrace those who embrace ideas, thoughtfulness, civility and kindness to others no matter what their political beliefs."
    James McGreevey

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    281

    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    I strongly dislike WBC; I think a majority of Americans do. Dislike is the wrong sentiment. I can't actually say exactly how strongly I dislike their opinions and their tactics.

    However, unless they are actually citing violence, not magical cloud violence (as in gays/soldiers/small children/everybody is going to hell), but actual physical violence, they aren't technically a hate group. They aren't saying kill gays; they are saying that god hates them, and they are going to hell.

    They are disgusting and terrible, and I wish the media would stop giving them attention. They make their money off of suing people who take a swing at them, or municipalities that refuse their right to picket peacefully. If you literally stop feeding the troll, they will go away.

    I do feel ultimately that while the gun control thing is getting a ton of attention, and most people feel that sane reasonable control is a good idea (hell, my dad, ultra-conservative, military 20 years, had guns while I was growing up, supports sane regulations like licensing and practical exams), the mental health component is going to be over looked.

    And this will just happen again. People always want to patch the symptom and not spend the money and time looking for the cause.

Page 15 of 86 FirstFirst ... 513141516172565 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •