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Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths - Page 39

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Thread: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

  1. #381
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by shipwreked View Post
    It would be unfortunate to bring a crowbar to a gun fight.

    I would not argue that guns are equally lethal. They are ranged weapons and reload automatically. My point is that eliminating guns from society does not eliminate the problem of psycopaths succeeding in killing dozens of people in a very short amount of time, which is the problem. Not law abiding citizens owning guns, which is what the administration is currently focused on.
    Setting aside the fact that while mass shootings are very visible and increasing and should be addressed, they actually are not the primary problem. That, I think, is the 30,000 people killed annually by gunfire in the US.

    However, let's circle back to "psychopaths succeeding in killing dozens of people in a very short amount of time." I just gave you an extremely appropriate example of the Chinese knife attack in which several students were wounded, but no one was killed. That is not an outlier, either. China (for some reason) seems to have a mass knife attack issue, and that outcome is fairly typical. Knife (and other) weapon attacks simply aren't as lethal as gun attacks, especially when the guns in question are semiautomatic rifles with large clips, especially against multiple victims. Reducing access to guns does, in fact, reduce the ability of people to inflict death on others.

    Guns are more lethal than any other commonly available weapon intended for person-on-person use. Guns are used for two-thirds of the homicides committed in the US even though other weapons (knives, ropes, cords, poison) are more widely available. Similarly affluent countries with more regulated access to guns have a similar *crime rate* overall to the US, but a much, much, much lower incidence of homicides because of the lack of weapons.

  2. #382
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Todash View Post
    Yes, we've figured it out. We're just picking out the colors for the padded walls. Some people like yellow, but I think it's a little too high energy for the circumstances. I was thinking more of a calming seafoam. What's your opinion?
    ....sound absorbent "egg carton"...cuts down on the noise of ricochets....


  3. #383
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator View Post
    Perhaps. We certainly wouldn't want someone with a hair trigger shooting their mouth off.

    I read the piece this morning but I'm a bit biased because of past experience with how things are twisted by conservative sites and pundits to think this will be any different in how it's received.
    ...OK, ya'll are treadin' in MY town now!...back off the metaphors, or it's spud guns at 20 paces....

  4. #384
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths



  5. #385
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Todash View Post
    There are adults in schools too. I'm not saying no one would get hurt, but look at China (which for some odd reason has a mass stabbing thing going on). The same day as the Newtown incident, someone in China stabbed an elderly woman and then went to a school and stabbed 20+ children. I mean, obviously that's bad. It's horrible. But no one died. Guns are lethal. Again, if guns are not more lethal than other weapons, why insist that we need them for protection? Why not ... simply use a crowbar?

    Shipwreked, is that a serious insinuation that little kids would be so shocked by the first brutal beating that they would sit there and watch 21 more until it was their turn? Come on now. Even CT had a group of kids run out on the shooter.

    And there was just a shooting with a bow and arrow at a college where the victim (and father) was able to stop his son long enough for his class to evacuate. The father died.

    We'll never know but I'm guessing the casualties with a gun would have been much higher.

  6. #386
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Todash View Post
    Yes, we've figured it out. We're just picking out the colors for the padded walls. Some people like yellow, but I think it's a little too high energy for the circumstances. I was thinking more of a calming seafoam. What's your opinion?
    Hot Pink!

  7. #387
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    So, for those still questioning my research on the gun death statistics, here is where I got that number:http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

    That site has lots of great - unbiased - information. For example:

    In the United States, annual deaths resulting from firearms total

    2011: 32,1635
    2010: 31,6726
    2009: 31,347
    2008: 31,593
    2007: 31,224
    2006: 30,896
    2005: 30,694
    And in case anyone points out the superscript for citations:

    5.Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu.2012.‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS).Hyattsville, MD:US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics,10 October. (Q6492)Full Citation

    6.WISQARS.2009.‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / WISQARS.Atlanta:National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC,9 December. (Q1377)Full Citation
    As of now I am through with this debate. Todash has given more than enough actual data to make the case for regulation. Regulation as in "well-regulated." And to suggest that means "in working order" is about the most disingenuous thing I've seen here. Between this sort of circular logic and the putting forward of opinion as fact, the "we love guns" crowd has shown itself to be on the losing end of this debate. End transmission.

  8. #388
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by guido tkp View Post
    i find it immeasurably guffaw-inducing that some would easily/seemingly encourage and/or rather restrict hollywood, and thus the first amendment...then make any...even the smallest, realistic attempt to 'well regulate' the second..

    i'm gonna go back to watching me some of them old-timey movies...like john wayne in the searchers...or some tv like gunsmoke or dan'l boone...'cause they never had any o' that violence stuff
    Did you ever notice that Matt Dillon always killed the other guy. He never wounded or winged 'em; every episode!

  9. #389
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Yeah, I keep thinking I'm about done here too, but then I get sucked back in. I think I'll try to refrain from making the same points over and over, though.

    A friend of mine posted something about gun control the other day on Facebook, and there was some back and forth, and then another friend posted that she didn't really care about the politics of it, but having a gun where she lives (and she is in a rural area, somewhat isolated, keeps small livestock that could attract larger predators, and she and her husband work different shifts sometimes, so I can't say in her situation I wouldn't feel the same) just makes her feel safer. My response to that was: thank you for your honesty. Because knowing how she feels, I wouldn't even bother bringing up the Constitution, regulation statistics, etc. I know she doesn't care. Having a gun makes her feel safer, so any discussion that's going to come to a rational conclusion would have to start with that.

    I think in any case where someone defends a position with rhetoric or circuitous logic, that person is usually making decisions based on emotion, not thought. The rhetoric and false logic are just protective camouflage. And the ruling emotion is fear. Any time you come into a debate knowing before it even starts that no matter what anyone else says, you are leaving with the same opinions and ideas you came in with, regardless of how compelling the arguments for the other side are, then you're operating on fear. Fear of what? I don't know. Could be lots of things. Fear of being powerless. Fear of change. Fear of alienating yourself from your pro-whatever spouse, family, friends, or community.

  10. #390
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunted View Post
    Did you ever notice that Matt Dillon always killed the other guy. He never wounded or winged 'em; every episode!
    And if I remember those episodes correctly, amazingly did so without there being a single drop of blood on the victims.


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