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Thread: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

  1. #441
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Todash View Post
    Many affluent countries have access to the same entertainment we do. They have also experienced the deterioration of the traditional family structure. Yet, their homicide rates (though not their overall violence rates, meaning there are plenty of assaults that don't end up in death, which is my personal preference; if I have to be assaulted, I'd rather not die, thanks) are

    far,

    FAR,

    FAR

    lower than ours. What is the difference? Less gun ownership, and more restrictions on what kind of guns can be owned. Those are the cold, hard facts. Statistics.
    Yes, the UN's "select few" nations to manufacture a list where the US is shown to have the most gun homicides per capita in that list. I've seen it, and was not very moved.

    Polls, impassioned (uninformed) rhetoric, and subjectively defined "facts". Works great on the scarecrows. Sorry but NBC Nightly News spewing about their "Poll" about how "Most Americans Think blah blah blah" is BS. Obama going off about how there is some massive (undefined) consensus growing around his (loosely defined) goals for fixing our (unstated) problems, is BS. I've yet to read King's essay, but it would be nice to see at least one well thought convincing argument for that side of the fence.

    Efforts to weed out psychos from getting their hands on a rapid firing 50 round cap semi-auto high caliber rifle, great. Lets do it. Outlaw all guns just to lower the probability some psycho is going to get such a weapon... That's crazy talk.

    Lowering the probability some idiot is going to assault an elementary school *with a gun* at the expense of eliminating the ability of every American (except military and law enforcement) to protect themselves is not a worthy trade in my perspective.

    On one had you eliminate the ability of law abiding citizens of utilizing the best self defence. On the other hand, you only reduce the probability of a bad guy using 1 method of mass despair. It's not a fair trade.

    Eliminate guns, there are still plenty of ways for a determined psychopath to kill you and many others... perhaps less noisy. We're not solving *the problem* by outlawing private ownership of guns. We're solving one method at the expensive of eliminating privileges enjoyed by millions of law abiding citizens.. which by the way is a hypothetical argument.. According to Obama and Biden, that's not what they are trying to do.. but then again they said they were going to make healthcare affordable and fix the economy too so who knows..

    I'm more comfortable with many good armed people, at the risk of some armed bad guys, than all law abiding citizens being unarmed and a few armed bad people along with all of the unarmed bad people.

    I'm not a republican or conservative, but delighted to amuse you, hossenpepper

  2. #442
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Todash View Post
    As for the economy, again, you have to look at the numbers. Obama inherited the WORST economy in decades, caused mainly by just the fact that the entire world, pretty much, was in recession, and also, specifically in the US, deregulation of financial institutions and tax cuts for the wealthy at the precise time spending was escalating. (Wars are spendy little ventures.)
    If he couldn't do the job, he shouldn't have signed up for it - Twice. I'm no fan of Romney but he knows how to make money for more people than himself. The feds are turning our money into some third-world ridiculous inflation situation by thinking they can solve our problems by printing more of it. I'm starting to suspect they're trying to wreck the train. I don't know about you guys but getting gas and grocery shopping is effing grim these days.

  3. #443
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    NO ONE IS OUTLAWING PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS

    They are suggesting that people can still defend themselves with guns that were around before the ones that have been used in many of the mass murders.


  4. #444
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    sorry, no need to scream. No one is arguing against keeping guns with high capacity magazines away from prozac saturated kids living a left4dead fantasy either. I haven't even heard of anyone arguing for high cap magazines.

  5. #445
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator View Post
    NO ONE IS OUTLAWING PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS

    They are suggesting that people can still defend themselves with guns that were around before the ones that have been used in many of the mass murders.
    Hmmm, are you surrrrrrre???...well, I just mean we need 'em to fight off tyrannical tyranny, right?
    Oh wait, well looky here, here be our big chance to prove it....
    Just got off the phone with a nephew who had to go to traffic court, let me repeat that, I said, traffic court, and had to bring his kiddo, my great nephew (and he most certainly is).
    But the judge said, 'Oh nay!'
    Now this wasn't even in his neighborhood, he's a truck driver and received his speeding tax bill about a hundred miles from home, so yeah it was a, "nice trip", as we say, but who cares, certainly not the judge.
    So said jag of jurisprudence tells said nephew he can't appear before the bench, and that was after he dressed down said nephew, in front of the entire court, for bringing his son to the legal festivities being held forth in what I can only imagine was a public building, kept up, in lights, in water and toilet paper, in part due to the many taxes payed by said truck driving nephew.
    And if that wasn't enough, our legal beagle refused to reschedule another appearance, said it was just as if my nephew hadn't even showed up (he was there to plead his case, not plead & pay out) *BAM!!!* he's found guilty.
    Oh and here's the absolute bestest part, said nephew has to write a letter of apology to said jerkolicious judge for not obeying his rules no one, except those that have appeared before him before, evidently aren't all that privy to, especially if you live four counties and a hundred miles away, and for being so damned contemptuous of that regal legal "scholar" and his personal public proclivities he feels are HIS right.
    Has to have it there by Friday or he's in contempt of court, and will lose his not just his license, but his CDL, and that little jewel is his living, his roof, the groceries that feed his children, one the very one that evidently isn't considered a citizen enough of these United States Of America to be in said public building, with his very own father, on a freakin' traffic ticket appearance.
    And then that's when the fun would really begin, what with the arrest warrant he'd have on his ass if he didn't turn his self in on said contempt of court charge.
    And y'all know somethin', and this is gonna really blow everybody away (oh no, please, don't pardon the pun), or it damn well should to you freakin' loony moon howlers (or not, butt we'll get to that in just a little minute...trust me), ya know there wasn't one single red white & true blue citizen marchin' around that courthouse packin' heat demanding this particular, and soooo not uncommon, flavor of tyranny to stop post haste (that's right, I said, "tyranny", don't agree, then by all means, tell me why it ain't ).
    So where are all you ever lovin' defenders of that constitution y'all always keep goin' on & on & on & on about, I mean this kind of thing IS what it's all about, ain't it?
    I'll tell ya where, y'all all bitchy bitchin' beeyotches be all glassy eyed rubbin' thin oil all over your cold hard rods, that's where, just like always.
    Talk talk talk, blather blather blather, yada yada yada, yack yack yack, poppin' off stupid smack about what's what without much of a clue, with absolutely no intention what-so-ever to do One damn thing about anything, not one but whine about your pop guns like scared little sissies, that is.
    Oh no uh-uh that just ain't so, one might say (if one was a buffoon at any rate), I say bullcrap (of course I would), and I give you a small sample from the in the headlines history...
    WWI Bonus Marchers
    West Virginia Coal Mine Strikers
    Kent State
    Waco Texas (though the yellow bellied cur, Timothy McVeigh, he was there, so like what, are exploding trucks protected by the 2nd too, you know, if'n ya promise cross your heart hope not to die by lethal injection not to blow up federal buildings, hell I dunno, you tell me)
    Tyranny, by actual tyrants, both big and small, it happens each and every single day in this country, Every F'n Day!...so where the hell are ya's, ya bunch of big talkin' lazy ass bark at the moon maniacs, where???
    Ohhhh that's right, and ewww, you should probably get a mop, that's freakin' disgusting!
    Next up, makin' bail & the constitution no one really gives one good dump about...the more you know, ya know?

  6. #446
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by shipwreked View Post
    Yes, the UN's "select few" nations to manufacture a list where the US is shown to have the most gun homicides per capita in that list. I've seen it, and was not very moved.
    The list is based on per capita income. It is a list of all affluent countries in about our sphere. Are you suggesting that somehow we should be patting ourselves on the back because our gun deaths are less than Colombia's? Or Nicaragua's? Or Israel's? Oh wait, Israel's are way less than ours. Please name some reasonably comparable countries that have as much as or more of a homicide rate than we do.

    Polls, impassioned (uninformed) rhetoric, and subjectively defined "facts". Works great on the scarecrows. Sorry but NBC Nightly News spewing about their "Poll" about how "Most Americans Think blah blah blah" is BS. Obama going off about how there is some massive (undefined) consensus growing around his (loosely defined) goals for fixing our (unstated) problems, is BS. I've yet to read King's essay, but it would be nice to see at least one well thought convincing argument for that side of the fence.
    I didn't cite polls. I don't give a frosted rat's patootie about polls. I'm talking about facts, facts that are cold and hard. Speaking of which, I notice you don't seem to have laid your hands on any that are relevant. Everything I see here is rhetoric.

    Efforts to weed out psychos from getting their hands on a rapid firing 50 round cap semi-auto high caliber rifle, great. Lets do it. Outlaw all guns just to lower the probability some psycho is going to get such a weapon... That's crazy talk.
    Who exactly is calling for all guns to be outlawed? Please tell me that. You don't get to win an argument by telling the other side what their position is. Or rather, if that's the only way you can win an argument, you are arguing with shadows.

    Lowering the probability some idiot is going to assault an elementary school *with a gun* at the expense of eliminating the ability of every American (except military and law enforcement) to protect themselves is not a worthy trade in my perspective.
    See above.

    On one had you eliminate the ability of law abiding citizens of utilizing the best self defence. On the other hand, you only reduce the probability of a bad guy using 1 method of mass despair. It's not a fair trade.
    And again.

    Eliminate guns, there are still plenty of ways for a determined psychopath to kill you and many others... perhaps less noisy. We're not solving *the problem* by outlawing private ownership of guns. We're solving one method at the expensive of eliminating privileges enjoyed by millions of law abiding citizens.. which by the way is a hypothetical argument.. According to Obama and Biden, that's not what they are trying to do.. but then again they said they were going to make healthcare affordable and fix the economy too so who knows..
    Putting aside for a moment the fact that fully two thirds of homicides in the US are committed with guns despite knives and other implements of death being more readily available, and putting aside the pesky truth that countries that control their guns more tightly than we do have a much lower homicide rate overall, because I am getting really tired, actually, of making that point and seeing nothing to rebut it but the gun-totin', Second-Amendment-is-the-only-one-that-counts, vaguely-formed-fear-of-the-government-taking-over-a-country-they-already-run-while-ignoring-the-current-reality-that-is-our-high-gun-death-rate crowd: The economy, which was a plate of rotten, maggot-infested garbage Obama inherited four years ago, is improving. The healthcare law was crippled by a lot of bass-ackward thinking and some efficient lobbying efforts by health insurance companies, yes, but as a matter of fact, you and I ARE more protected than we were a few years ago, and in a few more years we will be more protected still. AND AGAIN. You are fighting some sort of elusive shadow that does not exist. It's precisely as if you said "I think we should raise the age to see a rated R movie to 18," and I said "You want all movies to be G rated. That's just ridiculous. This is a country founded on free speech, and you're trying to take it away!"

    I'm more comfortable with many good armed people, at the risk of some armed bad guys, than all law abiding citizens being unarmed and a few armed bad people along with all of the unarmed bad people.
    Ignoring the fact that you are putting words in your opposition's mouth again: Oh, well. As long as you're comfortable. Why didn't you say so? Guys, shipwreked is comfortable. I guess there's no more discussion to be had here.

  7. #447
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by shipwreked View Post
    If he couldn't do the job, he shouldn't have signed up for it - Twice. I'm no fan of Romney but he knows how to make money for more people than himself. The feds are turning our money into some third-world ridiculous inflation situation by thinking they can solve our problems by printing more of it. I'm starting to suspect they're trying to wreck the train. I don't know about you guys but getting gas and grocery shopping is effing grim these days.
    Do you really think one man can turn around a train wreck like this in a few years? Jeezzzz. The world. Economy. Sucked. Still sucks. And we can't. Effing. Get Congress. To fix. Our tax base. I would like it to move faster too, but I'm not sure anyone could have done better. Certainly not Romney.

    Romney doesn't have a clue how to make money in any way that would make him a better leader of this country. He made his money in three ways.

    1. Inheritance. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. I am not one who thinks all rich people are somehow lesser than the rest of us. But the fact is, inheritance doesn't teach you anything. It's just the luck of the draw.
    2. Investment. If he was some kind of guru like Warren Buffett, paving his own trail, then ... okay. But as far as I know, he didn't do anything special other than invest in the same kind of funds that other rich people do. Nothing awesome about that; you just hire a decent financial advisor and have your books audited every so often to keep 'em honest. Again, there's nothing wrong with making money from investments. It's just not applicable to the US situation, especially when you're just doing the same thing all your rich friends do.
    3. Now this. This is where the icky comes in. Romney's work at Bain Capital consisted of finding companies with good cash flow but that were struggling otherwise, buying those companies in a weird shell game that involved Bain ending up owning the companies but the companies somehow footing the bill for the loan, then, since Bain owned the companies, it hired itself on as a consulting firm to help rescue the companies. Now, all of this would have been marginally acceptable if their consulting skills brought the companies success. But what Bain recommended, and what they did, was lay off many of the peons and lower management, paying themselves and the fat cat upper management fat cat bonuses because they "saved so much money" (and they got that sweet consulting dough too), and now, without enough employees, the companies no longer had the ONE thing going for them that they had before: a workforce sufficient to bring in cash. Remember, these companies owed the banks payments on the loans Bain took out (still amazed that's legal), but without the cash flow, they now struggled to make the payments and eventually folded, and guess what happened to the poor suckers who didn't get laid off the first time around? Yeah, no fat cat bonuses for them.

    I am not impressed with Mitt Romney in any respect, because I've seen plenty that makes me question his character, but specifically in terms of money, as far as I know, his main experience with making money is how to be a reverse Robin Hood, stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. I find that morally reprehensible, but more to the point, not remotely applicable when it comes to the US economy. Well, I mean, yes, it's applicable; it's what we've been doing for over a decade now. But it's not a very good strategy. I have to give Romney credit, though: it's the one thing he's done consistently. No flip-flopping on that.

  8. #448
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator View Post
    NO ONE IS OUTLAWING PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS

    They are suggesting that people can still defend themselves with guns that were around before the ones that have been used in many of the mass murders.
    *Can you hear me now?* Marsha- no matter how many times we scream this at those who don't want to listen and/or read what kind of gun control is being proposed, they just aren't going to *get it*. To those who don't *get it*- I'm sorry that your big semi-automatic *lollypop* is going to be taken away, but it's time to stop the killings. Grow up! To equate the taking away of assault weapons with the taking away of voting is just ridiculous. Going to a polling place and casting a vote is not the same as murdering a bunch of innocent people.

  9. #449
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    uh...shipwrecked...he did fix that...far better than any of the lame, worthless idiots my party foisted on the scene over the last...hmmm...lessee...30 odd years...

    and he has yet to ask that the 2nd be abolished in any manner, way or form...not once...not even close

    it's that sort of doggeral untruthiness that is destroying the GOP

    and, for the record...he won because the won the most votes...both times...easily...

    something mccain and romney could not manage to do...

    mostly because they both lied...they both sucked...and they both picked abysmally pitiful running mates who had no foot in reality

    the american people got it right....both times...so says this red, white and blue republican

  10. #450
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator View Post
    NO ONE IS OUTLAWING PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS

    They are suggesting that people can still defend themselves with guns that were around before the ones that have been used in many of the mass murders.
    ...ow-wee...ow-wee...ow-wee!!!!!!!....the font be hurtin' me earballs...gotta go fetch me shooters earmuffs....

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