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Thread: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

  1. #561
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths




    If true, you would think the NRA might want to be capitalizing on that in their official history of the NRA posted on their website. Maybe they just haven't had time to revise that piece of history yet.


  2. #562
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    I don't understand the bromance so many casual shooters have with the NRA. Don't they see that the NRA is solely concerned with the profits of gun manufacturers, and could give a damn about Joe Schmoe?

  3. #563
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    It appears the "assault weapons" ban is defeated.

    Does anyone want to discuss other proposals? I mentioned this one that the NRA helped to write but the only thing people seem to want to talk about is how much of a bastard Wayne LaPierre is LOL.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...#ixzz2OBUj4o5c

    How about increasing the penalties for possession of stolen firearms?

    How about a campaign to encourage the secure storage of firearms? I'd say requirement, but I don't see how it would be enforceable. How about a tax credit for the discounted purchase of gun safes?

    As far as universal background checks, how is this to be implemented? If I want to sell a firearm am I only allowed to sell it to a dealer at far below market value? Do licensed dealers have to be a middle man between private parties and do they get to charge an exorbitant fee?

    Anyone know how this is proposed to be implemented?

    Is an "assault weapons" ban a prerequisite to discussion of other ideas or what?

  4. #564
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths



    Looks as if the Congress won't ban instruments of war,
    Which is what a semi-automatic weapon's for.
    Won't restrict the magazines to 15 rounds or less.
    Even background checks have caused Conservatives distress.

    Claim that it's a registry so we'll know where to start
    When we come to pry their guns and cold, dead hands apart.
    NRA is threatening to "throw the bastards out."
    In the past it's been the only group that's wielded clout.

    They should know, another sheriff just rode into to town
    And he's got the cash to back the chips that he lays down.
    Michael Bloomberg's very rich and says he plans to spend
    Money on elections and the message that he'd send:

    Is that the majority, according to the polls,
    Want to see those 3 reforms, want help for tortured souls,
    Don't want politicians' specious arguments on rights...
    Want them to address concerns that keep us up some nights.


  5. #565
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    My only comment here is that why is this a "policy" suddenly? Does this really need to even be discussed? Why wasn't this already in place? My guess it wasn't the liberal demoncrats that blocked this over the years. Hell, unstable people are a good customer base for those that sell deathmakers and boomsticks.

    How about increasing the penalties for possession of stolen firearms?
    100% agree. Let's just make it flexible enough to take into account the details of each case. I don't think mandatory minimums are good except for pedophiles and wall street crooks.

    How about a campaign to encourage the secure storage of firearms? I'd say requirement, but I don't see how it would be enforceable. How about a tax credit for the discounted purchase of gun safes?
    Not bad, but it would need to be the NRA who leads this. Since their approach is "we aren't changing a damn thing, you need to learn to live with what we want" I am not sure this will happen. The tax credit is a good idea. Maybe the government could come up with a criteria for the construction of the safes and those that comply you get a discount and a tax deduction, those that don't comply, just a tax deduction. How about a tax deduction for completing a firearms safety course and getting your license? Might be a good supplement to this.

    As far as universal background checks, how is this to be implemented? If I want to sell a firearm am I only allowed to sell it to a dealer at far below market value? Do licensed dealers have to be a middle man between private parties and do they get to charge an exorbitant fee?
    This is the one place I am really siding with the right regarding. I just don't how in the hell this will work or be enforced. The gun show loophole needs to be closed NOW. Maybe an idea is to have agents that act like public notaries, only are specifically trained on the background check stuff and gun transactions. Maybe you have to get a "pass" or "Ok" from the local gov't or law enforcement agency (or maybe federal) and then show that "OK" to the notary, who then stamps the private party sale as a witness. Of course this is open for corruption, but it's an idea.

    Is an "assault weapons" ban a prerequisite to discussion of other ideas or what?
    Well for me it isn't necessarily, but I still don't see the need for these weapons. They aren't good for hunting, they aren't needed for home defense really (except for the wild death squad scenarios). They are fun to shoot. So then why not let firing ranges keep them (and other high powered automatic weapons, etc) and you can go there and rent them and safely shoot them until you are all tuckered out.

  6. #566
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    My only comment here is that why is this a "policy" suddenly? Does this really need to even be discussed? Why wasn't this already in place? My guess it wasn't the liberal demoncrats that blocked this over the years. Hell, unstable people are a good customer base for those that sell deathmakers and boomsticks.

    Good question. I don't know. The NRA has always advocated tough on crime proposals even though criminals would likely be a good customer base. The NRA also did support the Staggers bill during the debate on the Brady Bill, requiring the BG system to be computerized and completed immediately at point of sale, that's basically what we have now.

    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    100% agree. Let's just make it flexible enough to take into account the details of each case.
    Agreed. I think something must be done first before this is enacted, perhaps a data base where stolen firearms are entered by serial number that the general public can access to make sure they are buying a clean gun. This would be possibly made moot by or done in conjunction with universal background checks depending on how that might be implemented.


    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    Not bad, but it would need to be the NRA who leads this. Since their approach is "we aren't changing a damn thing, you need to learn to live with what we want" I am not sure this will happen. The tax credit is a good idea. Maybe the government could come up with a criteria for the construction of the safes and those that comply you get a discount and a tax deduction, those that don't comply, just a tax deduction.
    I would think it would have to apply to gun safes that meet a certain rating.

    You could actually require it by adding an additional entry in section 11 of form 4473:

    "When not in immediate control by owner will this firearm be stored in a gun safe or other security container of XX rating or higher"

    The penalty for falsely checking yes would be perjury. Hard to enforce yes, but just having it on the books might be enough to dramatically increase secure storage by firearms owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    How about a tax deduction for completing a firearms safety course and getting your license? Might be a good supplement to this.
    Not sure what you mean here. A voluntary gun license and training with a tax credit incentive? If that's what you mean, I don't think it will hurt. I do like the carrot rather than stick approach.


    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    This is the one place I am really siding with the right regarding. I just don't how in the hell this will work or be enforced. The gun show loophole needs to be closed NOW. Maybe an idea is to have agents that act like public notaries, only are specifically trained on the background check stuff and gun transactions. Maybe you have to get a "pass" or "Ok" from the local gov't or law enforcement agency (or maybe federal) and then show that "OK" to the notary, who then stamps the private party sale as a witness. Of course this is open for corruption, but it's an idea.
    There just doesn't seem to be any info on how this is proposed to be implemented. Without that, it's hard for me to say I would support it or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by hossenpepper View Post
    Well for me it isn't necessarily, but I still don't see the need for these weapons. They aren't good for hunting, they aren't needed for home defense really (except for the wild death squad scenarios). They are fun to shoot. So then why not let firing ranges keep them (and other high powered automatic weapons, etc) and you can go there and rent them and safely shoot them until you are all tuckered out.
    This is the one thing where we have most disagreement. They are good for hunting and the self defense needs are different for a city apartment dweller and southern rural property owner who might have smuggling routes running through his land for example.

    Any ideas for further restrictions specifically on these, short of complete bans or ban on keeping them on your property?

  7. #567
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator View Post
    Having those guns and ammunition owned by the general population and putting people's lives in danger. I fully understand it's my personal opinion but I feel just as disenfranchised by the dismissive attitude of the more vocal of gun rights advocates who think that only they have rights because of the second amendment and their interpretation of it to mean I can own whatever the hell guns I want and screw you.
    But Ms. Mod, that "screw you" attitude is on both sides. To be fair. Everyone thinks that they are right and everyone who dissagrees is wrong.

  8. #568
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmeej View Post


    Looks as if the Congress won't ban instruments of war,
    Which is what a semi-automatic weapon's for.
    Won't restrict the magazines to 15 rounds or less.
    Even background checks have caused Conservatives distress.

    Claim that it's a registry so we'll know where to start
    When we come to pry their guns and cold, dead hands apart.
    NRA is threatening to "throw the bastards out."
    In the past it's been the only group that's wielded clout.

    They should know, another sheriff just rode into to town
    And he's got the cash to back the chips that he lays down.
    Michael Bloomberg's very rich and says he plans to spend
    Money on elections and the message that he'd send:

    Is that the majority, according to the polls,
    Want to see those 3 reforms, want help for tortured souls,
    Don't want politicians' specious arguments on rights...
    Want them to address concerns that keep us up some nights.

    What keeps me up nights is thinking that I might not be able to protect my family because of what others think is best for me. And don't give me the police will help line. I've worked in law enforcement, and it is a reactionary force, not a preventative in most cases. I understand people's concerns, I have concerns too, but if anyone thinks that tougher guns laws and gun bans will keep us, the law-abiding safe, they are mistaken. Criminals already out gun police and citizens in many cases. How about we do something about that? And one more thing, people will always find a way to do violence against others...guns or no...so what right does anyone have to tell me that I can't have a gun (or guns) to prevent said violence form happening to the ones I love? And if I can't stop bad things from happening, at least I would have had the means to try other than a baseball bat and a call to the local police. Sorry, rant over.

  9. #569
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuggs View Post
    But Ms. Mod, that "screw you" attitude is on both sides. To be fair. Everyone thinks that they are right and everyone who dissagrees is wrong.
    I disagree. There is not a discussion of banning ALL guns on the liberal side--that would be a screw you attitude. However, there is no discussion at all of any compromises regarding making some guns or ammunition prohibited on the other side. And that seems very much like a screw you attitude to me.


  10. #570
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    Default Re: Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

    It was not a gun that kept James Seevakumaran from inflicting harm on those he intended to kill, it was his roommate calling 911 and when realizing they were on the way, he took his own life. And this is yet another example of someone who would have fallen between the cracks of the "it's only the mentally ill that do this sort of thing" safety net fallacy that so many people are falling into. He still had guns and ammunition which he obtained legally and no one knew a damn thing about it until it was almost too late.


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