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Thread: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepia and Dust View Post
    Actually, arguing is the only way to solve anything. It's how we're exposed to the viewpoints of others, and to the pros and cons of those viewpoints.

    Shasta and I do not disagree, for the most part, on this issue. That monster who raped and murdered Polly Klaas, for instance... I would be perfectly happy to personally cut off parts of the man before he goes to his final doom, especially after his behavior in the courtroom.

    I cannot, though, no matter who gave me permission. Even if I were legally sanctioned to do so, it would make me no better than Richard Davis, himself. The same applies to any society that would give such a sanction.

    I prefer to believe that we're the good guys, that we're above revenge as a form of justice, that the vendetta was a barbaric practice, and that we've evolved into something better.
    ...and I respect S&D as well....I just don't agree here...at all.....

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    You want to do away with lengthy prison sentences?
    ...Hell yeah!...it's one of the major reasons that most states are in budgetary trouble...

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    GNTLGNT, I hope they pay you well...............

    I'm not sure I could put up with half the stuff you must have seen/endured in your working life........

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    I haven't been able to reply to this before now. I couldn't believe I was reading actual news when I opened the link this morning, my heart broke and tears just keep coming back.
    If these boys are found guilty, I'm not sure what I would hope for...? I'm not trusting my heart for that answer. I have never (ever) been in support of the death penalty, but (there it is) how can the hurt and loss (ever) be accurately acknowledged? How can the vilest of deeds be punished appropriately?
    What in the hell is wrong with some people?! I don't understand this level of effed-up, my head can't process it without losing bits of my (remaining) sanity.
    ~ There'll be Chocolate, if God wills it. ~

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    Quote Originally Posted by GNTLGNT View Post
    ...then you better get me a shrink, coz I think long and prolonged pain is the least that they deserve...this is heinous and deserves more than our soft-assed judicial system will give them....call me nuts, don't care-retribution is the answer here...not cuddling and "Oh they should have help"...BS!....they were well aware of what they were about to do...this was a thrill kill, nothing more or less...
    Ok, then let's look at it from your point of view.

    Can I assume that you'd only support torturing your "best and brightest"--those who've committed crimes so awful that they'll never see the outside of a prison?

    If so, then what's the point? What good will be served by taking them into a little room and working them over with razorblades and crowbars? Will it help the victim? Will it reform the convicted?

    What the convict deserves isn't at issue. That's not what the justice system is for, and that's not what it does. To bag one off of the good Professor: many are dead who deserve life... can you give that to them?

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    Quote Originally Posted by GNTLGNT View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepia and Dust View Post
    It's bad enough that our judicial process--indeed, the very founding document of this nation--does not in any way allow for "an eye for an eye".
    ...now that's the best thing you've said to date...
    I'm pretty sure that didn't mean what you thought it meant.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    Law serves society. Justice serves the individual. Only rarely do the two concepts line up and walk in tandem. It is sad, but true. Let me illustrate:

    1. To a parent, spouse, child, etc. deprived of a loved one, what equates to justice? Chances are you will get a wide variety of responses. They are the only living wronged party. The victim cannot really be given anything as they have moved on. The nature of justice, thus, is highly personal and will vary based on the remaining, living victims. For example, if someone were to rob me of my wife, the only justice I would consider acceptable (and even that would feel insufficient) would be for me to PERSONALLY punish and eliminate the culprit. More forgiving types than I might be happy with a life sentence.

    2. To society on the whole, law applies punishments based on what is acceptable to the majority. It is political. It exists to maintain law and order. Obviously society would not function well if people like myself were allowed to go out and get our justice. Things would degenerate into anarchy, i.e the blood feud. Society is a harsh mistress and thus often works AGAINST the interests of justice in favor of stability.

    Do you see where I'm going with this? I'm a pretty liberal person. I don't like injustice. I cringe at the thought of an innocent person locked up. I believe we have a responsibility to help our fellow human beings when there is a need. Even so, there is a core of me that I understand on an intuitive level. That part of me would not take the greater good into consideration if/when someone I love is hurt or killed. It is a very sticky widget. I don't think justice is remotely served by keeping monsters alive for the rest of their natural lives. It adds insult to injury that even more victims (all of us) are generated as we have to pay for them. Is society served? Well, society is still here. Since the aim of such things is to preserve society, we have to accept that we can't discount it works on some level even if we don't like it. Our system constantly shifts to more or less Draconian. When we run afoul of a certain level of monster our natural inclination is to wonder why we aren't harsher. Human beings are reactive sadly, rather than proactive.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepia and Dust View Post
    Ok, then let's look at it from your point of view.

    Can I assume that you'd only support torturing your "best and brightest"--those who've committed crimes so awful that they'll never see the outside of a prison?

    If so, then what's the point? What good will be served by taking them into a little room and working them over with razorblades and crowbars? Will it help the victim? Will it reform the convicted?

    What the convict deserves isn't at issue. That's not what the justice system is for, and that's not what it does. To bag one off of the good Professor: many are dead who deserve life... can you give that to them?
    ....no I cannot...but I believe in vengance...and in my worldview...those being so punished would be in full view of those others incarcerated....maybe that would give them pause next time they decide to try something stupid when they get "to the streets"....

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepia and Dust View Post
    I'm pretty sure that didn't mean what you thought it meant.
    ...I know that, believe me, just on the face of it...it looked good...

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Two Teens Charged In Killing Of 13 Month Old Boy

    ...and you and I I will never see eye to eye on this, because I come from a very jaundiced outllook on humanity...I am amazed and gratified more when little miracles of goodness happen, than I am suprised when "good old" human fu**ery happens over & over....no offense to you, you have valid points from your own personal perspective and I really do like you...I just will never agree with you on this subject...fair enough?....

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