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Thread: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

  1. #41
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by Shasta View Post
    You disgust me.
    I want to apologize to everyone for saying this. I should have kept my head and been a little calmer, no matter how I feel.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by jimson2 View Post
    Note: I just looked at my paperwork and see that coverage for ED medication is excluded. Should I be outraged that this isn't being treated as my "right"? Or should I be willing to pay out of my pocket for it?
    I took offense to your comment that it promotes recreational sex and I shouldn't have gotten so upset so I apologize.

    I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying. Every month I get upset because I have to pay for my thyroid medicine, which keeps me alive, but I don't have to pay for my BC pills. I don't think that's right.

    But this is very much like the "small steps" argument about the left and gun control.

    Because there are so many people who do want to ban birth control, I feel like being able to pick and choose what to cover is a slippery slope.

    And the difference between ED and BC is that if someone gets pregnant and they don't want to, that is a serious life complication. It can really, really hurt people. ED sucks, yeah, but it's not going to make someone lose their job/career or potentially cause a whole bunch of other problems that unwanted pregnancy can cause.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by Shasta View Post
    I took offense to your comment that it promotes recreational sex and I shouldn't have gotten so upset so I apologize.
    Don't give it a second thought, but thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shasta View Post
    And the difference between ED and BC is that if someone gets pregnant and they don't want to, that is a serious life complication. It can really, really hurt people. ED sucks, yeah, but it's not going to make someone lose their job/career or potentially cause a whole bunch of other problems that unwanted pregnancy can cause.
    Yes, and I can't even say that I think the mandate is that big of a deal, but recreational sex while a strong human urge, surely is optional and can be accomplished through use of very affordable barrier methods, and the majority of county health departments offer free birth control services I believe. So from a very conservative anti entitlement stand point I could see how one might oppose the mandate without opposing the use of or availability of oral contraceptives on the open market.

    I guess I just really don't like when things are exaggerated for use as a weapon to beat the opposition with. It's only my opinion that that exaggeration exists. I realize both sides do such things, but I can't help but be more offended when it is done against my side.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by jimson2 View Post
    Don't give it a second thought, but thanks.


    Yes, and I can't even say that I think the mandate is that big of a deal, but recreational sex while a strong human urge, surely is optional and can be accomplished through use of very affordable barrier methods, and the majority of county health departments offer free birth control services I believe. So from a very conservative anti entitlement stand point I could see how one might oppose the mandate without opposing the use of or availability of oral contraceptives on the open market.

    I guess I just really don't like when things are exaggerated for use as a weapon to beat the opposition with. It's only my opinion that that exaggeration exists. I realize both sides do such things, but I can't help but be more offended when it is done against my side.
    Ha! Believe me, I understand being more offended when it's on my side.

    One of the problems with barrier methods, though, is that they at the control of the male. I would like to say that women have come far enough in this day and age to never have sex without a condom, but that's just not what happens. Many, many women still feel pressured to have sex and, let's face it, men are still considered the dominant, more forceful sex. A woman who takes the pill is much, much more in control.

    Think about your post about that poor girl who was assaulted when drunk in CA. Now, I don't think she was raped but what if she had been? One can hope her rapists would have used condoms but it's very likely that those little bastards wouldn't have. If she was on the pill that could have prevented something terrible from happening. Not all terrible things, of course, but one at least.

    Of course, I realize that this is a pure hypothetical but people get raped every day. This is just one small way that women can be in control of their own bodies and their own lives.

    Or, what about a poor girl in the ghetto who's in a gang? She might not be in a place where she can control what happens to her but access to birth control may stop another neglected kid on the street.

    I just think there's so many things other than recreational sex that BC helps.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by Shasta View Post
    Ha! Believe me, I understand being more offended when it's on my side.

    One of the problems with barrier methods, though, is that they at the control of the male. I would like to say that women have come far enough in this day and age to never have sex without a condom, but that's just not what happens. Many, many women still feel pressured to have sex and, let's face it, men are still considered the dominant, more forceful sex. A woman who takes the pill is much, much more in control.

    Think about your post about that poor girl who was assaulted when drunk in CA. Now, I don't think she was raped but what if she had been? One can hope her rapists would have used condoms but it's very likely that those little bastards wouldn't have. If she was on the pill that could have prevented something terrible from happening. Not all terrible things, of course, but one at least.

    Of course, I realize that this is a pure hypothetical but people get raped every day. This is just one small way that women can be in control of their own bodies and their own lives.

    Or, what about a poor girl in the ghetto who's in a gang? She might not be in a place where she can control what happens to her but access to birth control may stop another neglected kid on the street.

    I just think there's so many things other than recreational sex that BC helps.
    I know that female condoms are available but lets face it. Sex with condoms just sucks. I am actually probably more in in agreement with you on this subject that my own side but I can also see that side of it, at least as far as the anti-entitlement mindset is concerned.


    As far as rapists are concerned, if there was ever one category of scum whose throats I could rip out with my bare hands.

    I don't have a word to say about whatever a woman can do in that situation or the aftermath of.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by jimson2 View Post
    I am actually probably more in in agreement with you on this subject that my own side but I can also see that side of it, at least as far as the anti-entitlement mindset is concerned.

    If you want my honest opinion, I think BC should be paid for by the person but that drug companies should have to keep the price low. One way or another, you are demanding someone do something they don't want to do.

    (I do wish I didn't have to pay for my thyroid medicine, though.)

  7. #47
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by Shasta View Post
    If you want my honest opinion, I think BC should be paid for by the person but that drug companies should have to keep the price low. One way or another, you are demanding someone do something they don't want to do.

    (I do wish I didn't have to pay for my thyroid medicine, though.)
    I wish your thyroid medication was covered too. I have heard that the cost of BC pills is already pretty low but I don't know if that's true. I have never priced them LOL.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    hi, haunted...yes..religious rights...there are many, many religious sects that allow for the idea that a women may have some manuever room on the issue of abortion

    all the laws being offered up and voted on are being done so by religious groups and/or politicians who find abortion against their religious beliefs...

    almost zero of the negative options called for in all the bills presented through the last few years have ever been asked for by any in the medical profession..excepting those who are anti-abortion: they are all laws and regulation meant solely to stifle a womens right to choose...they are not created to protect anyone from anything...

    if they were...the laws would be written to have the very same effect on any and every medical facility..that has never been the case in any of the bills...they all effect only clinics, teaching hospitals and/or doctors who perform abortions...

    it does not take much to be all that honest and know that all the efforts to curtail or ban abortion are religiously motivated...

    therefore, any effort to limit or ban abortion is an act of forcing the constitution to do something it is expressly forbidden to do: pick one religious ideology over another and make it the sole law of the land

    nearly every abortion bill offered in the last few years leaves no exceptions...not for rape...not for extreme, deadly conditions...even if a womens life is in danger...this is not just a health care issue, but a religious rights one, too..always has been

    if anyone cannot understand that...then their personal morals and ethics could be in for serious re-examining...

    in addition....as an individual who has actually paid attention to all the ups and downs of this for too, too many years...i am not ready to forget that both the catholic church and one of the anti-abortion campaigns first and more prominent leaders, randall terry (leader of the 'summer of mercy' right south of here in wichita...lo, those many years ago) have repeatedly and publically said the the endgame is to ban all contraception too...anybody who argues any less is either woefully uninformed...or lying

  9. #49
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    Quote Originally Posted by guido tkp View Post

    it does not take much to be all that honest and know that all the efforts to curtail or ban abortion are religiously motivated...
    Well, certainly for the most part. What I can tell you is that I am not a churchgoer, not a member of any organized religious community and I can't say I am really comfortable with abortion, you know, the whole stops a beating heart thing, but I can't say that it's because of my religion.

    I get very much less comfortable when it comes to 3rd trimester abortions, partial birth abortions and what this Kermit guy is accused of, but I'm just not willing to take a stand on the issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by guido tkp View Post
    in addition....as an individual who has actually paid attention to all the ups and downs of this for too, too many years...i am not ready to forget that both the catholic church and one of the anti-abortion campaigns first and more prominent leaders, randall terry (leader of the 'summer of mercy' right south of here in wichita...lo, those many years ago) have repeatedly and publically said the the endgame is to ban all contraception too...anybody who argues any less is either woefully uninformed...or lying
    Of all the very conservative people I know, there aren't any that would support that.

    I guess I can see a parallel to the gun control slippery slope argument, but like most folks here who don't think semi auto bans will lead to total elimination of all guns. I don't think even a ban on abortion will lead to elimination of contraception and I don't think there will ever be a ban on abortion except for just maybe the partial birth variety, and probably not even that.

    For all the talk of religious extremists taking over the Republican party, I just don't see that the country has become anything but more liberal and can't see any fear of them gaining any real ground to be very valid.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: The Horror Of Kermit Gosnell

    then you really need to take the blinders off, friend...........seriously...

    i'm glad you're one of the few who've come to a conclusion that abortion might be wrong w/o the benefit of a religion telling you that that is the way it must be..

    doesn't do a wit to change what i said...and you know it: that movement is nearly entirely a deeply felt, religious idealogy

    the slippery slope is not only here on this issue...it is running rampant with slavering glee: every day, in the last few years, far right wing congress' in numerous states have whittled away at womens individual freedoms...

    for someone who claims he watches alot of news and keeps up on things...how could you have possibly have missed all that ??

    in my state alone last week...they sent one of the most restrictive laws in the nation to the govenors desk (a governor who has made it very clear he has no problem putting catholic doctrine into law)...can you spell unconstitutional ??

    and, while i'm sure all your friends wouldn't think of such a thing...it's pretty clear to the rest of us who pay attention to all sides of the issue that the overwhelming majority of folks on the anti-choice side do so because of their religion....not because they think the closets in abortion clinics might be too small for safety.....or that the temperature in those same clinics might not be correct to safely perform medical procedures....or that the clients must all be some sort of stupid that they need to be told certain things (even patently untrue things) over and over....to not only make sure they understand exactly what it is they are thinking of doing...but, also, to make sure they are fully informed about what it is the far right, anti-abortion crowd thinks they are doing, as well...since most of these laws also force women to have to listen to the anti-abortion version of it all, tool...

    i know this must all come as a shock...since you've arrived at your decision completely as an ethical matter of conscience...none if negates the facts and the truth of what i said...

    too, too many are eager and willing to ignore the constitution...too eager to overturn freedoms they do not approve of simply and only because it does not fit within their view of religion...

    as for the idea that somehow the religious right has not placed it's wicked stake firmly and deeply within the heart of freedom that the R party once stood for...well...

    tell that to john mccain........in his sober moments, i'm sure he'll laugh at your missing out on all this reality swirling about this issue

    three simple words, right john ? bob jones university

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