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Thread: Thoughts on this one?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    Quote Originally Posted by PatInTheHat View Post
    Really?...Well I might be a half crippled up four eyed fat of an ol' smelly geezer, but I think I can still manage type it out real slow for ya...
    W h y - , - w h a t - e x a c t l y - i s - w r o n g - w i t h - t h a t - f o r - s u b j e c t - m a t t e r?
    Can ya dig me now, or is English not your first language, I mean there's folks on here, the real nice folks, that could maybe help you with that parlez vous'in hablo ingles palaverin' type stuff ?
    Are you for real?

    This goes way over the line into offensiveness, on so many levels.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    Everyone seems to be getting a bit scratchy in these Hot Topic threads. This message is for us all. Take a step back and relax. Please do NOT disrespect SK, Marsha or this community by reading between lines, pushing people's buttons and baiting.

    Is the negative energy worth it? No. Please stop.
    Last edited by Dana Jean; April 14th, 2013 at 11:59 AM.
    "You've been here before, but things are about to change. I know it. I feel it. There's a storm on the way." -- Stephen King

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    Quote Originally Posted by nygene40 View Post
    Are you for real?

    This goes way over the line into offensiveness, on so many levels.
    Well I respectively disagree.
    And on every level.
    Better?
    No?..then allow me to apologize, I am so very sorry.
    'K?
    Now, please, if you would be so generous as to do me this one kind favor, just answer the freakin' question...would the promise of sugar on top help?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana Jean View Post
    Everyone seems to be getting a bit scratchy in these Hot Topic threads. This message is for us all. Take a step back and relax. Please do NOT disrespect SK, Marsha or this community by reading between lines, pushing people's buttons and baiting.

    Is the negative energy worth it? No. Please stop.
    'K...I'ma go cut grass in comeuppances now, I know when I've been a bad PatInTheAzzHat(um, ish)

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    I don't know if that is right or wrong. Shall we continue to close our eyes? Easier to do so. I just don't know.

    That is why they call them "teachers".

    I dunno.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana Jean View Post
    Everyone seems to be getting a bit scratchy in these Hot Topic threads. This message is for us all. Take a step back and relax. Please do NOT disrespect SK, Marsha or this community by reading between lines, pushing people's buttons and baiting.

    Is the negative energy worth it? No. Please stop.
    ...how about wiffle bats at ten paces?....I'll handle the boo-boo repair station...

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    The other side of the issue:





    April 13th, 2013
    02:38 PM ET
    My Take: Nothing wrong with Nazi assignment
    Editor's note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "The American Bible: How Our Words Unite, Divide, and Define a Nation," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.

    By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN

    (CNN) - School officials in Albany, New York, are racing to control the damage after a teacher at Albany High School gave students a persuasive writing assignment that challenged them to defend the proposition that “Jews are evil.”

    After studying Nazi propaganda and rhetoric, sophomores in three English classes were instructed to imagine that their teacher was “a member of the government in Nazi Germany” and to prove that that they were “loyal to the Nazis.”

    But this unidentified teacher is now caught up in a propaganda swirl of his or her own.

    Albany Superintendent Marguerite Vanden Wyngaard, at a Friday press conference at which she was flanked by members of the Anti-Defamation League and Jewish Federation of New York, apologized and promised disciplinary action.

    One student, Emily Karandy, told The Times Union of Albany that she kept putting off the assignment “because I didn’t want to think about it” and she felt “horrible” when she turned it in.

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    New York City Councilman David Greenfield has called for the resignation of the teacher, who has been placed on leave.

    "The teacher responsible for coming up with and assigning students with this task must be held accountable for attempting to indoctrinate children with anti-Semitic beliefs," Greenfield said in a statement. "Quite obviously, this teacher lacks the judgment and common sense necessary to have a position of such great responsibility and is clearly not fit to return to the classroom."

    "You asked a child to support the notion that the Holocaust was justified, that's my struggle," said Vanden Wyngaard. "It's an illogical leap for a student to make."

    I think it’s Greenfield who is lacking in common sense here. And it's the superintendent who is being illogical.

    I suppose it is possible that the teacher is a closet Nazi attempting to reconstruct the Third Reich in Albany. But isn’t it more likely that he or she is trying to teach students about the dangers of propaganda and the horrors of the Holocaust?

    Consider the student who felt “horrible” about doing this assignment. Is that really a bad thing? How are high school students today supposed to feel about Nazism and the Holocaust?

    Apparently, what they are supposed to feel (and think) is nothing, because the lesson high school teachers are going to take away from this fiasco is to avoid this topic at all costs, lest they risk losing their jobs.

    When I was an assistant professor at Georgia State University in Atlanta, I used to teach Nazi theology. My students read sermons by Nazi theologians arguing that Jews were evil and were responsible for killing Jesus. They also read a book called “Theologians Under Hitler” by Robert P. Erickson, who tried to explain how and why Christian thinkers could come to believe that exterminating Jews was somehow Christ-like.

    I am not a Nazi. I was not teaching Nazi theology as the truth. I was teaching it as propaganda, just like this Albany High School teacher was doing. My purpose was not to make my students sympathetic to Nazism. My purpose was to unsettle them. And to teach them something along the way.

    I had two goals when teaching this material.

    First, I wanted my students to realize that smart Christians with doctoral degrees supported the Holocaust. Second, I wanted them to grapple with the implications of this fact on their own religious commitments. Do Christians today have any responsibility to know this history and to try to make sure it doesn’t happen again? If so, how can they exercise that responsibility without coming to understand the contours of Nazi thought?

    But instead of grappling with these questions, my students almost universally tried to side-step them. The Nazis were not Christians, they told me confidently, because Christians would never kill Jews just for being Jews. Case closed. Time to move on to more comfortable topics.

    What I witnessed in Atlanta, and what we are seeing today in Albany, is a failure of imagination. My students were so locked into their current circumstances that they couldn’t imagine things being different in a different place and time.

    For them, to believe that Christians could condone the Holocaust was (to quote from the Albany superintendent) an “illogical leap.” But Christians did condone the Holocaust. How can students learn that without digging into the primary materials? And how better to wrestle with those primary materials than by constructing a persuasive essay built upon them?

    If I were teaching at Albany High School I might have worded this assignment a little differently. But it's a terrific assignment, and one that should be used at more high schools across the country. To far too many American youth, the Holocaust is an echo of an echo. Assignments like this bring it alive in all its horrors.

    CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

    But students aren't the only victims of the failure of imagination we are now witnessing among Albany school officials and Jewish leaders. The teacher is a victim, too. And so are public school teachers across the country who are being told via this fiasco not to be creative as teachers, not to challenge their students to think in new ways.

    If this teacher is fired, I will invite him or her to Boston University, where I now teach, to explain what he or she was trying to accomplish in challenging students with this assignment. And I will give the same assignment to my college students. I think it will do them some good.

    The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    The assignment was interesting. Most assignments ask the students to put themselves in the shoes of the victim and the victim alone. This one required the students to look at an ugly picture and put themselves in the shoes of the victimizer. I think the exercise probably has a great deal of value. That being said, the teacher should have forseen this would be a hot button issue and contacted the parents first, explaining the nature of the assignment and what it was intended to teach. For better or for worse, this one should have gotten the parental input/permission first (and should have been coordinated through the schools Administration).

    In short, the assignment is of value because of its nature. That in turn clearly indicates there would be a reaction. It is a valid method of instruction but poorly excecuted.
    Last edited by Robert Gray; April 15th, 2013 at 02:37 PM.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    This reminds me of that movie "The Wave", based on a true story from 1969 where a history teacher creates a dictatorship as a classroom experiment and it gets out of control.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this one?

    I think it's a valid critical thinking assignment.

    BUT, I think it could have been done much more sensitively.

    They could have been asked to pretend like they were from country Xperion (or something made up) and that they needed to take out the people of Snuffville. That way no one group could take it offense.

    There was a teacher in the 60's who taught racism by having her kids think a certain eye color was better than another, then she switched it up. It was controversial and thought provoking and wonderful, and I wish teachers did it now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

    I don't think controversial teaching is bad, I just think it has to be done carefully and with sensitivity.

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