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Thread: Monument

  1. #1
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    Default Monument

    I shared this picture on my wall on FB

    And immedeately got into a rather heated debate with someone who commented on it. She is an Atheist and believes adamantly that the cross should be removed.
    If the cross were the only monument, I would agree with her. But, as the cross is housed within the museum, just one piece among many, I think that it should be allowed to remain. It was part of the events that occured on and just after 911.
    She says that since it's a monument/museum run by the government, it should represent no religious symbols. To house the cross, in her opinion, disrespects and oppresses the religious beliefs of any and all non-Christians that were killed by forcing the Christian symbol to be viewed in the monument.
    I say that removing the cross is doing exactly the same thing she's accusing the Christians of: The Atheists forcing their opinions to be observed on public display above all others. My remedy was to suggest that if she wants all other belief systems to be honored at the memorial, she should come up with a display that represents that.
    She said it would take too much time and money, that the only logical way to honor all religions is to represent none. And why can't I understand that?
    I do understand that. I just don't agree with it.
    I don't want to start any holy wars, here, but I wonder what you guys think?
    And don't worry. I can handle being disagreed with.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Monument

    Quote Originally Posted by Lepplady View Post
    She says that since it's a monument/museum run by the government, it should represent no religious symbols. To house the cross, in her opinion, disrespects and oppresses the religious beliefs of any and all non-Christians that were killed by forcing the Christian symbol to be viewed in the monument.
    I concur and consider it a slap in the face, at least my face.
    That said, I could really give a hoot less, I mean it ain't like I ain't used to having my face slapped on a daily basis with all this religious, um, stuff, and it ain't like I can hardly chuck a collection plate out a window without smackin' a crucifix around here, or most everyplace I've ever lived or visted...hell, even got one hangin' in me very own house, but no Halleluiah Chorus & happy hosanna's just yet, it ain't mine.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Monument

    I believe in the what is behind the meaning of the cross so I think it should stay. It's not like somebody created it from the rubble, it is part of what was left behind. It's too bad the atheists can't just agree to see it as another piece of rubble and let the believing folks see it as a cross if they want to.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Monument

    As an athiest who was raised as a Catholic and graduated from Notre Dame, I'm not offended by other people displaying religious beliefs. (I'm only offended by hypocrites claiming the moral high ground, regardless of belief.) That said, the display of a cross as a religious artifact in a publicly funded museum is not offensive to me at all, it's just another part of the overall history and story. To pretend that religion does not exist is wrongheaded and smacks of censorship. Now, if the whole museum was specifically aimed at promoting a pro-Christian message, that would be another thing, but that's not the case here.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Monument

    Quote Originally Posted by fushingfeef View Post
    As an athiest who was raised as a Catholic and graduated from Notre Dame, I'm not offended by other people displaying religious beliefs. (I'm only offended by hypocrites claiming the moral high ground, regardless of belief.) That said, the display of a cross as a religious artifact in a publicly funded museum is not offensive to me at all, it's just another part of the overall history and story. To pretend that religion does not exist is wrongheaded and smacks of censorship. Now, if the whole museum was specifically aimed at promoting a pro-Christian message, that would be another thing, but that's not the case here.
    My thoughts exactly!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Monument

    Quote Originally Posted by PatInTheHat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lepplady
    She says that since it's a monument/museum run by the government, it should represent no religious symbols. To house the cross, in her opinion, disrespects and oppresses the religious beliefs of any and all non-Christians that were killed by forcing the Christian symbol to be viewed in the monument.
    I concur and consider it a slap in the face, at least my face.
    That said, I could really give a hoot less, I mean it ain't like I ain't used to having my face slapped on a daily basis with all this religious, um, stuff, and it ain't like I can hardly chuck a collection plate out a window without smackin' a crucifix around here, or most everyplace I've ever lived or visted...hell, even got one hangin' in me very own house, but no Halleluiah Chorus & happy hosanna's just yet, it ain't mine.
    If the cross were the entire monument, I would agree. But it's one part of a much larger display. It represents the beliefs of some of those that died on 9/11, and in no way proclaims to speak for all of them.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Monument

    Quote Originally Posted by fushingfeef View Post
    As an athiest who was raised as a Catholic and graduated from Notre Dame, I'm not offended by other people displaying religious beliefs. (I'm only offended by hypocrites claiming the moral high ground, regardless of belief.) That said, the display of a cross as a religious artifact in a publicly funded museum is not offensive to me at all, it's just another part of the overall history and story. To pretend that religion does not exist is wrongheaded and smacks of censorship. Now, if the whole museum was specifically aimed at promoting a pro-Christian message, that would be another thing, but that's not the case here.
    Exactly. I agree.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Monument

    It doesn't take much for a symbol of a religion to invoke animosity and mistrust on both sides on an equation. One side doesn't want something, the other side does. Wars have started that way for thousands of years. Human nature. When you factor faith into the in group/out group equation, it always ends badly, usually for both sides in terms of human costs.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Monument

    I wholeheartedly agree with you. It was found in the rubble and therefore part and parcel. I am also sick and tired of people telling me I can't display any religious symbols just because it may offend someone who either doesn't have any or has different ones. There is a vast difference between forcing and just saying. One persons beliefs are just as anothers.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Monument

    Live... and let live. People are in everybody else's business way too much, we are different, but we all belong.
    ~ There'll be Chocolate, if God wills it. ~

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