I've always wondered this about the story. You know when Bill seen the turtle & things like that were was he at was he in space or something? cool points to anyone who answers lol.
A question *Possible Spoilers*
- Thread starter Riot87
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That was the impression I got...space. For what it's worth, check out James Jones From Here To Eternity. There's a section in Jones' long story, a scene with Milt Warden, that has an uncanny resemblance to the scene from It.
Similar in a sense, as I think the two have a like-kind exchange of connective tissue...or a force that holds the two together, a sense of going out from one's self. In Jones' first quote, there's a sense that the self is rising above the other self...and in the other quote, in the same scene, there's that shift to a downward movement, a slope of snow.
Completely unrelated, but have you ever focused on the car immediately ahead of you as you stop at the light that cautions yellow, so you stop, the watch the vehicle in front of you move away, the way it grows smaller. A cool effect helped by speed...of the car moving. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Similar in a sense, as I think the two have a like-kind exchange of connective tissue...or a force that holds the two together, a sense of going out from one's self. In Jones' first quote, there's a sense that the self is rising above the other self...and in the other quote, in the same scene, there's that shift to a downward movement, a slope of snow.
Completely unrelated, but have you ever focused on the car immediately ahead of you as you stop at the light that cautions yellow, so you stop, the watch the vehicle in front of you move away, the way it grows smaller. A cool effect helped by speed...of the car moving. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I was thinking Bill's spiritual ka separated from his physical body to view the Cosmic Turtle holding the world. My thinks were a bit influenced by a sci-fi book I'd read in which a person's ka was a sleeping ghost that could travel outside the body though so I could be totally wrong lol
I think he was in "space"; the space between worlds. Todash Space.
Robert Gray
Well-Known Member
It isn't space as we know it, i.e. the vastness between stars. It is the reality beyond the stage dressing of the backdrop of the surreality that we think is real. Another poster called it Todash Space, and to a degree that is as good a term as any. It isn't 100% on the nose, but it is closer than anything else. Another way of putting it is that it is a level of the Tower far removed from our own. Scientific types might want to call it an alternate dimension, and Heinlein fans would cite alternate realities. These have a grain of truth but are still not on the mark. We are talking more about hyperreality here, and I hope I didn't just lose most of you.
If fiction is the truth inside the lie, then the reality we experience could be considered the "lie" and what we do and the struggles we endure to be the truth that we find within it. The Turtle isn't really a turtle anymore than It is really a clown or a spider. When you tackle cosmic bullsh*t you kind of have to throw away the guide book. It was taking Bill into hyperreality wherein the truth of things rather than the reality of things is made manifest. Thus, the Turtle is there and what the Turtle represents is real; it is truth. But what Bill perceived is still just another metaphorical perception, another lie. The truth of that vastness is that the world and reality as we know it is very small. The truth is that there is an "outside" as well, where It (the real It) is constrained.
Never forget that Bill (and the others) didn't go anywhere per say. Their bodies remained while their consciousness expanded. Actual reality appeared in metaphor. If one wants to bring in more Tower logic, the closer you get to the top of the Tower the more simple and true things become. I've gone on a bit of a tangent here, so I'll reign myself back in. It isn't outer space. It isn't really inner space either. They experienced the infinite truth of reality which appeared extremely vast to them because they are human and finite.
If fiction is the truth inside the lie, then the reality we experience could be considered the "lie" and what we do and the struggles we endure to be the truth that we find within it. The Turtle isn't really a turtle anymore than It is really a clown or a spider. When you tackle cosmic bullsh*t you kind of have to throw away the guide book. It was taking Bill into hyperreality wherein the truth of things rather than the reality of things is made manifest. Thus, the Turtle is there and what the Turtle represents is real; it is truth. But what Bill perceived is still just another metaphorical perception, another lie. The truth of that vastness is that the world and reality as we know it is very small. The truth is that there is an "outside" as well, where It (the real It) is constrained.
Never forget that Bill (and the others) didn't go anywhere per say. Their bodies remained while their consciousness expanded. Actual reality appeared in metaphor. If one wants to bring in more Tower logic, the closer you get to the top of the Tower the more simple and true things become. I've gone on a bit of a tangent here, so I'll reign myself back in. It isn't outer space. It isn't really inner space either. They experienced the infinite truth of reality which appeared extremely vast to them because they are human and finite.
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Robert Gray
Well-Known Member
All of that is, of course, like... just my opinion man. The Dude abides.
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Thanks Robert Gray and everyone else who answered much respect 