Are musicians our modern day philosophers?

[Ebdim9th]

Neil Young ... "out of the blue, into the black..."

 

[Grandpa]

When I hear music and lyrics that call down to the depths of my soul, I'm reacting to how it reaches me on a personal level. It's being evocative of how I feel, or want to feel, or how I view the world.

But generally, it's not describing the nature and purpose of existence. We have so much more knowledge base now than we did when Socrates or Hume were questioning the basis of existence. For me, the philosophers have given way to physicists, who theorize and confirm (or not) the nature of existence to the quantum level and who look into stars and singularities; and to ethicists, who continually grapple with what to do with this expanding sphere of knowledge vis–à–vis the human condition.

 

[Ebdim9th]

Critical thinking is a function of philosophy and indispensable to investigative disciplines ...there's a philosophy to everything pretty much, believe me, it's easy to get lost in the definitions of modern courses on tools of philosophical discourse, a metanarrative on how we see ourselves through the lens of scientific study....

 

[Nomik]

Bob Dylan. Go ahead and hate, ya buncha haters. Make yer little nasal impersonations. Twirl yer stained fingertips at his Byzantine lyrics.

A hard rain's agonna fall...

 

[Nomik]

When I hear music and lyrics that call down to the depths of my soul, I'm reacting to how it reaches me on a personal level. It's being evocative of how I feel, or want to feel, or how I view the world.

But generally, it's not describing the nature and purpose of existence. We have so much more knowledge base now than we did when Socrates or Hume were questioning the basis of existence. For me, the philosophers have given way to physicists, who theorize and confirm (or not) the nature of existence to the quantum level and who look into stars and singularities; and to ethicists, who continually grapple with what to do with this expanding sphere of knowledge vis–à–vis the human condition.

That's where I was trying to eventually go with my comments! I was afraid the point had been lost. I don't think science and philosophy are mutually exclusive of on and other.

 

[Grandpa]

This is an offhand comment, no thought behind it, just throwing it out.

Science investigates where and when we exist.
Music expresses how we exist.
Philosophy ponders why we exist.

 

[Agincourt Concierge]

Bob Dylan. Go ahead and hate, ya buncha haters. Make yer little nasal impersonations. Twirl yer stained fingertips at his Byzantine lyrics.

A hard rain's agonna fall...

"We always did feel the same
We just saw it from a different point
Of view
Tangled up in blue"

 

[kingricefan]

Bob Dylan. Go ahead and hate, ya buncha haters. Make yer little nasal impersonations. Twirl yer stained fingertips at his Byzantine lyrics.

A hard rain's agonna fall...

Dylan did get a Nobel for his lyrics, so he can't be all that bad, eh?

 

[Ebdim9th]

I'm sure lyrics in songs of the past forty years are probably considered masscult(ture) , perhaps dumbed down for the rest of us ... but thoughtfulness does not require pedigreed approval .....

 

[Nomik]

I just call this creative existentialism.

 

[muskrat]

I just call this creative existentialism.

Or 'lyrical libertarianism'.

 

[Ebdim9th]

Or nihilistic creative existential expressionism .... well ... supposedly this generation is adrift without any intrinsic meaning...

 

[Dana Jean]

Barry McGuire



"Eve Of Destruction"

The eastern world it is exploding
Violence flarin', bullets loadin'
You're old enough to kill but not for votin'
You don't believe in war but whats that gun you're totin'?
And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin'

But you tell me
Over and over and over again my friend
Ah, you don't believe
We're on the eve of destruction

Don't you understand what I'm tryin' to say
Can't you feel the fears I'm feelin' today?
If the button is pushed, there's no runnin' away
There'll be no one to save with the world in a grave
Take a look around you boy, it's bound to scare you boy

And you tell me
Over and over and over again my friend
Ah, you don't believe
We're on the eve of destruction

Yeah my blood's so mad feels like coagulating
I'm sitting here just contemplatin'
I can't twist the truth it knows no regulation
Handful of senators don't pass legislation
And marches alone can't bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin'
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin'

And you tell me
Over and over and over again my friend
Ah, you don't believe
We're on the eve of destruction

Think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
You may leave here for four days in space
But when you return it's the same old place
The pounding of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead but don't leave a trace
Hate your next door neighbor but don't forget to say grace

And tell me
Over and over and over and over again my friend
You don't believe
We're on the eve of destruction
Mmm, no, no, you don't believe
We're on the eve of destruction

 

[Dana Jean]

 

[Nomik]

This is an offhand comment, no thought behind it, just throwing it out.

Science investigates where and when we exist.
Music expresses how we exist.
Philosophy ponders why we exist.

Listening to music is experiential; I reiterate, the chords and the musical theory influence the way we process and experience the music just as much as the memories associated with listening to it.
There is a likely explanation for that. Think about the Golden Ratio: a numerical proportion that is aesthetically pleasing, found in a Nautilus shell, and on you average postcard. Well, there's obviously the old adage "The simplest explanation is usually right", God? Now if we are going to get theological here, I might not stay. The truth is, I'm not here to preach. I learn every day. I know what I believe to be true, thus far.

 

[Ebdim9th]

I often approach music theory with apprehension, because pulling apart some things, especially the more complex and delicate they are, to see how they work is to guarantee they no longer will. I once overheard a couple of ad agents deconstructing a creative work, book? movie? I don't remember, into marketable product-objects .... the creativity was nullified and wiped away in their analysis, as though it had never existed in the first place, advert-anti-existentialism....

 

[Ebdim9th]

Maybe I'll put a band together and call it The Fibonacci Sequence ....if Im even spelling his name right ...oh, well, night owl .... there .. it's fixed .. maybe a computer effects company too and call it the FibonaCGI Sequence... now, seriously, overdue for bedtime...

 

[skimom2]

Getting back to the original question, I believe Diabolic's post included John Lennon's Imagine, for a reason.
You have the Cold War threatening to escalate, the war in Vietnam freshly over, or nearly so. Have you ever been to the Vietnam memorial wall in D.C.? Powerful stuff; the sheer number of names etched into that wall will give you an appreciation for all of the protesting.
Imagine came out (I believe) after the McCarthy trials. (Which were essentially an incarnation if the Salem Witch trials, see The Crucible)
John comes out with this pro communism ballad, and everybody loves it.
I remember a time when my generation bought in to the fear of all things communist/socialist, and I don't want to hash out the pros and cons of any economic, civic, or governmental structure here.
It just seems like maybe this needs a little more pondering.
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too

Perhaps it's naïveté, perhaps it's maturity, but I used to agree with this concept. Now, after living a little, reading some great historical fiction (Outlander), and becoming a little more aware, I can't imagine having NOTHING worth dying for.


Similarly, my theme song (American Pie) inspired me to accumulate binders of research, analyzing every bit of history surrounding the plane crash: every reference, every detail, every possible interpretation, and I still find more. When I first understood,
"Lennon read a book of Marx"
I had to research dirges, of course! I remember thinking:
I've got the Marxist Martyr part, now where exactly was that park?
I love the thrill of discovery.

I think it's "Lenin read a book on Marx" I'd bet that song had a lot of people researching what 'dirges' meant

 

[Nomik]

I think it's "Lenin read a book on Marx" I'd bet that song had a lot of people researching what 'dirges' meant

Thank you- I had forgotten about the possible double entendre. I was remembering the way I heard it, not the way it was written. The Russian connection seems particularly relevant now too.i remember learning about dirges in college, but never found a frame of reference until later in life.

It's not just musicians who philosophize, imagine making movies!

 

[Nomik]

I can't tell you how many times I hear "I hate deconstructing literature and looking for metaphors", in life.
I'm calling BS on your comment, Ebdim. I've watched you analyze the heck out of things, quite eloquently. Especially the DT, Idris .. .thread from way back in August. (Or was it July?)