Entering the circle *SPOILERS*

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PanLoki

Member
Jun 18, 2014
10
46
49
Orléans, France
Hello all.

I would like to ask a very specific question about the novel "IT" and unfortunately, I am a philosophy teacher... Moreover a French philosophy teacher... which means that I am extraordinarily lousy with computers!

So OMG why, why on God's green Earth do I have to post a post here on the Newbies forum before I may ask my question about IT? Why is my old Mac unable to cope with the format of the SKMB posts (I am currently writing from my wife's laptop)? Why is the Newbies start here forum so far away form the top of the page? Why do I always ask why this and why that?

(This is slipping out of control...)

(Ahem. Let's start afresh.)

My question about IT is this: I read Stephen King's explanation about his original idea of the book and how he came up with the troll in the sewers. Okay. Got it. Yet. Such a powerful story doesn't appear entirely set up in the writer's mind. I believe he muses over the main villain, especially such a mysterious one as IT.

I was therefore wondering: could IT be considered as one of Lovecraft's deities, maybe even a Great Old One similar to Cthulhu? Do readers share this view or am I presuming too much and finding a far-fetched explanation? And what about Stephen King himself? If IT and Derry are somewhat Maine equivalents of Cthulhu and R'lyeh, was it a conscious construct by Stephen King or is it what psychologists could call inconscious anamnesis? (They probably have a specific term for this, but I don't know it.)

Thanx a lot to all SKMB members who would answer me :)
 
Mar 12, 2010
6,538
29,004
Texas
image.jpg

IT reminds me of Nyarlathotep. Nyarlathotep was a shape-shifter and, like some of the Old Ones, IT is somehow bound to its lair beneath Derry. I think of SK's mythos as his own but he was a Lovecraft fan so...

A couple of SK's short stories mention Yog-Sothoth and some of the creatures that emerge from The Mist are very Lovecraftian :)

If you haven't read it already, read SK's short story Crouch End. It was originally published in an an anthology titled New Tales of the Cthulhu Mythos.
 

PanLoki

Member
Jun 18, 2014
10
46
49
Orléans, France
Thanks, Ms Mod, I just realized that ;)

To HollyGoLightly : HPL is a must-read. Materialistic metaphysics gone bananas and horrifying. Top-notch.

To be more specific than simply Cthulhu is a monster sleeping underwater, IT is sleeping under Derry, ergo IT equals Cthulhu, the whole moment in the house in Neibolt street make me think of a lovecraftian catalogue of horrors, especially the whole space-time distorsion business. I was also enteraining the idea that maybe IT was one specimen of a spawn of Shub-Niggurath, knowing that SK used Shub-Niggurath in the Crouch End short story (and by the way, Crouch End... wow!).

My other question would be this - and now that I think of it, this question might also be asked about On Writing. If Lovecraft actually inspired SK whist writing IT, is there any kind of way for a contemporary horror writer to write a non-lovecraftian novel? I mean, even if the author does not choose to write a lovecraftian novel, the subconscious inspiration might dictate such themes. And if it doesn't, it probably will to at least some of the readers - so even if the author specifically tries to avoid lovecraftian themes and tricks, still they will haunt some readers' minds. Guys like me will see some part of Lovecraft or another behind any horror story (that I know of). Otherwise stated: do you think that IT haunting Derry is in fact Lovecraft's spirit haunting the world of horror litterature?
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
Sai King was heavily influenced by Lovecraft, as were most of the science fiction, fantasy, and horror writers of the last century. You don't have to look too far or too hard to see several direct inferences and homages to the "dark and baroque Prince" as Sai King calls Lovecraft in Danse Macabre. Perhaps the most direct homage to Lovecraft is the short story "Crouch End," which appears in the book Nightmares & Dreamscapes. That being said, the cosmic horror that the Losers call "It" goes far further than Lovecraft's god-like entities. The "Deadlights" don't seem to be just one creature but rather an amalgam of all that is wrong and "outside" reality. The real entity, better known as the Deadlights, exists far beyond our reality where it is barred from entering in its true, maniac lack of form. It is the unmaking for a lack of a better word. It reaches out and into our world through pinholes in the barrier which keeps it "outside" and these fingers take on physical form and a semblance of sentience beyond the hate and insanity.

To put this in context, the monstrosities of Lovecraft are dwarfed by the Deadlights. If anything, they themselves would be avatars and physical manifestations of it. The various monsters of Lovecraft were aliens, most often from outer space. This means they are still from our reality however horrific. The Deadlights are outside of everything and massive beyond comprehension. Oddly enough, Sai King probably got a small bit of inspiration from the film "X: The Man With the X-Ray Eyes." He mentions this old film in Danse Macabre as well. The man in question has developed eye drops that allow him to see through things and beyond. Eventually he is seeing beyond the confines of our reality and perceives a massive swirling madness of lights which seem alive and aware of him.

Pennywise (or It) for lack of a better name is a physical manifestation of the real monster, and in that physical incarnation it certainly can be compared to the horrific monsters of Lovecraft's imagination, things so horrific that madness seems to follow perception of them. But once you are beyond the physical and get down to brass tacks we are really talking about something else, the mother lode of "outside evil," the source so to speak. Mighty Cthulhu who towers like Godzilla is still but a mote in the eye of the Deadlights.
 

Lily Sawyer

B-ReadAndWed
Jun 27, 2009
6,625
15,016
South Carolina
Thanks, Ms Mod, I just realized that ;)

To HollyGoLightly : HPL is a must-read. Materialistic metaphysics gone bananas and horrifying. Top-notch.

To be more specific than simply Cthulhu is a monster sleeping underwater, IT is sleeping under Derry, ergo IT equals Cthulhu, the whole moment in the house in Neibolt street make me think of a lovecraftian catalogue of horrors, especially the whole space-time distorsion business. I was also enteraining the idea that maybe IT was one specimen of a spawn of Shub-Niggurath, knowing that SK used Shub-Niggurath in the Crouch End short story (and by the way, Crouch End... wow!).

My other question would be this - and now that I think of it, this question might also be asked about On Writing. If Lovecraft actually inspired SK whist writing IT, is there any kind of way for a contemporary horror writer to write a non-lovecraftian novel? I mean, even if the author does not choose to write a lovecraftian novel, the subconscious inspiration might dictate such themes. And if it doesn't, it probably will to at least some of the readers - so even if the author specifically tries to avoid lovecraftian themes and tricks, still they will haunt some readers' minds. Guys like me will see some part of Lovecraft or another behind any horror story (that I know of). Otherwise stated: do you think that IT haunting Derry is in fact Lovecraft's spirit haunting the world of horror litterature?

I respect your learned approach to understanding It.
You're not crazy for picking up on the inspirations that you do. However, I also think you're over-analyzing it.
Yes, there are Lovecraftian overtones to it, but it's still an original piece of work, written with no guile.
Welcome to the Board.
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
61,289
239,271
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Hello all.

I would like to ask a very specific question about the novel "IT" and unfortunately, I am a philosophy teacher... Moreover a French philosophy teacher... which means that I am extraordinarily lousy with computers!

So OMG why, why on God's green Earth do I have to post a post here on the Newbies forum before I may ask my question about IT? Why is my old Mac unable to cope with the format of the SKMB posts (I am currently writing from my wife's laptop)? Why is the Newbies start here forum so far away form the top of the page? Why do I always ask why this and why that?

(This is slipping out of control...)

(Ahem. Let's start afresh.)

My question about IT is this: I read Stephen King's explanation about his original idea of the book and how he came up with the troll in the sewers. Okay. Got it. Yet. Such a powerful story doesn't appear entirely set up in the writer's mind. I believe he muses over the main villain, especially such a mysterious one as IT.

I was therefore wondering: could IT be considered as one of Lovecraft's deities, maybe even a Great Old One similar to Cthulhu? Do readers share this view or am I presuming too much and finding a far-fetched explanation? And what about Stephen King himself? If IT and Derry are somewhat Maine equivalents of Cthulhu and R'lyeh, was it a conscious construct by Stephen King or is it what psychologists could call inconscious anamnesis? (They probably have a specific term for this, but I don't know it.)

Thanx a lot to all SKMB members who would answer me :)
Welcome - a French philosopher who enjoys a pint of beer! (now that is a winning combination) :panda::encouragement:

wolf and raven.jpg
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
62
Cambridge, Ohio
...RG as is his norm when it comes to IT, made a much better case in his comments than what I was about to whack out on the keys...I would only add that "N" is a fantastical tip of the Lovecraftian hat to old Howard...
n3.1.jpeg