I have questions about Revival (spoilers)

[Sweet One]

I just finished Revival in record time (in three days). I have some observations to make an questions to ask. There are spoilers below.


I had read a review which suggested that the ending of Revival was very disturbing, but the book was very thought-provoking. I actually took a chance and read it. The reviewer did not exaggerate about the ending. But it was so thought provoking the experience was worth the read.

SK has written tragic, downbeat endings many times before, and back in the eighties especially. His worldview seems to have brightened just a bit around the time he wrote Desperation, how at the end David Carver reflects that the human condition is maybe "not so bad" as I recall.

But now, its obviously taken a turn backwards.

SK has killed off many sympathetic, likeable, even heroic characters in sometimes pointless ways, in order to illustrate the sometimes pointless nature of life. But here he takes a leap forward.

In other stories what lies beyond death is left unrevealed, the great mystery that it actually is. But in Revival, he does not merely kill of Patsy and Morrie in a sickening, pointless manner---he actually sends to hell. And, not merely them, but by implication, countless others as well.

This is not a traditional hell, nor a judgmental hell. But it is effectively hell nonetheless. It is obvious these people are suffering. It seems likely also that they will continue to suffer, at least for a very long while.

This book was obviously written by someone who has great fear of what comes after death. I think a great many of us do, and that is why the book strikes so strong a chord. SK may be imagining as horrifying an afterlife as he can, so that maybe, just maybe, when he arrives there himself, it may not be so bad after all. Jesus might even turn out to be real.

The question I have (one of them anyway) is what this hellish afterlife implies for everyone in the SK multiverse. Castle Rock is referenced in the story, as is Jerusalems' Lot. So this obviously is taking place within the SK universe. Therefore, it seems that anyone who has died in an SK story has wound up there. Lovable tykes like Tadder, Gage, and Pie Carver, heroes like John Coffee, Wolf from the Talisman--they're all being herded by giant ant-things--that's what this story tells me. Is there anything that suggests differently? I don't think so. There is some suggestion that Jamie's vision might have been false, but it's strongly implied otherwise.

Okay, there are exceptions to this. Jake Chambers wound up somehow in Midworld, and the spirits ALL of Roland's Ka-tet somehow merged with their counterparts in some alternate version of New York. But what about the rest?

 

[Bev Vincent]

It's an interesting point -- is this the implication of this story? This isn't the first appearance of "mother," to my way of thinking. The other from Bag of Bones seems to be a similar entity, something that oozes through from outside our realm on the coat-tails of a spirit. However, Jo Noonan, who is dead from the beginning of the book, isn't in this realm of eternal torment. She isn't a slave to the great old ants.

My feeling about the larger SK universe is that you can drive yourself crazy trying to make it all internally consistent. The connections between books are cool and fun, but I don't expect it all to work, and I don't try to ret-con new information into older works. A lot of people go mad over 19 sightings in early novels, but to my way of thinking those are purely coincidental because 19 didn't mean anything to King until 1999.

And, of course, there are other worlds than these, and so perhaps there are other afterlives, such as the one experienced in Willa or other tales that theorize about what comes next. The ghosts in Ghost Brothers of Darkland County have a different post-life experience, too...

 

[staropeace]

I just finished Revival in record time (in three days). I have some observations to make an questions to ask. There are spoilers below.


I had read a review which suggested that the ending of Revival was very disturbing, but the book was very thought-provoking. I actually took a chance and read it. The reviewer did not exaggerate about the ending. But it was so thought provoking the experience was worth the read.

SK has written tragic, downbeat endings many times before, and back in the eighties especially. His worldview seems to have brightened just a bit around the time he wrote Desperation, how at the end David Carver reflects that the human condition is maybe "not so bad" as I recall.

But now, its obviously taken a turn backwards.

SK has killed off many sympathetic, likeable, even heroic characters in sometimes pointless ways, in order to illustrate the sometimes pointless nature of life. But here he takes a leap forward.

In other stories what lies beyond death is left unrevealed, the great mystery that it actually is. But in Revival, he does not merely kill of Patsy and Morrie in a sickening, pointless manner---he actually sends to hell. And, not merely them, but by implication, countless others as well.

This is not a traditional hell, nor a judgmental hell. But it is effectively hell nonetheless. It is obvious these people are suffering. It seems likely also that they will continue to suffer, at least for a very long while.

This book was obviously written by someone who has great fear of what comes after death. I think a great many of us do, and that is why the book strikes so strong a chord. SK may be imagining as horrifying an afterlife as he can, so that maybe, just maybe, when he arrives there himself, it may not be so bad after all. Jesus might even turn out to be real.

The question I have (one of them anyway) is what this hellish afterlife implies for everyone in the SK multiverse. Castle Rock is referenced in the story, as is Jerusalems' Lot. So this obviously is taking place within the SK universe. Therefore, it seems that anyone who has died in an SK story has wound up there. Lovable tykes like Tadder, Gage, and Pie Carver, heroes like John Coffee, Wolf from the Talisman--they're all being herded by giant ant-things--that's what this story tells me. Is there anything that suggests differently? I don't think so. There is some suggestion that Jamie's vision might have been false, but it's strongly implied otherwise.

Okay, there are exceptions to this. Jake Chambers wound up somehow in Midworld, and the spirits ALL of Roland's Ka-tet somehow merged with their counterparts in some alternate version of New York. But what about the rest?

Very thoughtful are your insights. Wow! I really enjoyed the first part of the book but did not like the ending so much. It did not mesh with me. I was recovering from surgery at the time so that can slant my feelings. I re-read it and now I like and enjoy the story much more. It was fantastic..but, again, not the ending. Oh well. Such is life.

 

[SharonC]

Very thoughtful are your insights. Wow! I really enjoyed the first part of the book but did not like the ending so much. It did not mesh with me. I was recovering from surgery at the time so that can slant my feelings. I re-read it and now I like and enjoy the story much more. It was fantastic..but, again, not the ending. Oh well. Such is life.

When we come so close to our own mortality, it's a very disturbing concept.

 

[Huitzil]

I don't think this DOES imply anything for the larger SK universe. I don't think it can -- because we've seen stuff about how death works in other books, and it's well summed up as "not like that".

I don't see why people are attributing the ending to some newly realized fear or bitterness on the part of the author. This is a cosmic horror story, and it's not shy about it what with the references to De Vermiis Mysteriis and namedropping Lovecraft and the famous line about strange aeons. And it's ACTUALLY a cosmic horror story, not just a normal horror story or a thriller gussied up with tentacles. Cosmic horror is about mankind being small, insignificant, and the universe outside of our tiny perceptions being an awful place that is not at all conducive to happiness or human life.

That ending was being built toward over the whole book, not just with the talk of a secret electricity or a secret world more real than this, not just the common theme of delving into things Man was never meant to know, but the motif in the Sermon and afterward that God and religion are lies we tell ourselves to be able to make peace with a world that is fundamentally brutal and unjust and incomprehensible and nightmarish.

The "real world" being Cyclopean ruins where human beings work in endless, deathless suffering to serve the meaningless aims of some nonsensical being, deprived of all companionship and culture and warmth and everything that we would say makes us human, is the ultimate expression of the brutal injustice of the universe, and that'd been heavily hinted at the whole time. The nihilistic message of "Life has no purpose, no meaning, no reward" is central to cosmic horror, and ties the book off perfectly.

But for that to work it can't BE compatible with all those other books, because not all of them are true, nihilistic cosmic horror stories, and they require different things to be true. Life has purpose and meaning in most of the Dark Tower-related books, and the universe is, if not fundamentally good or sane, something that is worth fighting to protect. Revival can't exist in that world for it to work. In the Dark Tower, ka is a force actively looking out for you, because you and your role are important and must be fulfilled. That kind of force cannot exist in the world of Revival, where you are not important, and "destiny" is something that just makes people repeatedly bounce off each other like billiard balls.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...maybe in some fashion this is King's adaptation of a vision of Hell-as it relates to various literary "landscapes" of same over many years. However, it also ties in very readily to his own Universe, as it's taken shape through his career, and with his love of tweaking Lovecraft's own creations....I never got the feeling it was penned by "someone who has great fear of what comes after death", after all, the man stood on the threshold some years ago-his body splintered-but the spirit unbowed.....so, did he get a glimpse beyond?...maybe, just maybe and it's made him respect the shadow of the Reaper-but not fear it...

 

[no bounce no play]

I read Revival as a stand-alone horror novel without connections to SK's other novels. It did seem to have a connection to SK's mythos but I don't think Mother rules in all stories in SK's universe (or universes). I really liked Revival. It was different

 

[Mr. Crandall]

I share many of the thoughts of the posters to this page, but I took it in a slightly different direction.

Spoiler: possible Dark Tower spoilers

This is certainly a level of the tower, but one that, for the sake of argument, has had something horrible happen to it. Some aspect of beams collapsing or some other calamity has given it unusual access to something beyond the norm (ie the door hidden behind the dead ivy). To me, the nightmare realm beyond the door seemed very much like the Prim, the outer darkness, the chaos of ancient demons that Gan and the beams rose out of. The howling of insane, alien gods could easily be attributed to the demons of the outer darkness.

So in this thought exercise, the Dark Tower (Gan) is the living multiverse, and self-contained within are the many SK worlds and afterworlds. But since the Tower is in decay (broken beams and such), this specific world has fractured. Much like how the beams breaking contribute to the death of some levels (ie the Stand world), the decay of reality has left the Revival world with an unfortunate connection to the Lovecraftian nightmares of the Prim. Mother is a greater beast of the Prim and the small door is an exit from Gan into chaos in the most literal sense. I don't think that the alternate worlds would have to connect here, maybe they still meet in the clearing at the end of the path.

On a side note, I wonder if tinkering with the secret electricity and universal force contributed to the downfall of Midworld. Seems like something North Central Positronics would be all about.

 

[GNTLGNT]

I share many of the thoughts of the posters to this page, but I took it in a slightly different direction.

Spoiler: possible Dark Tower spoilers

This is certainly a level of the tower, but one that, for the sake of argument, has had something horrible happen to it. Some aspect of beams collapsing or some other calamity has given it unusual access to something beyond the norm (ie the door hidden behind the dead ivy). To me, the nightmare realm beyond the door seemed very much like the Prim, the outer darkness, the chaos of ancient demons that Gan and the beams rose out of. The howling of insane, alien gods could easily be attributed to the demons of the outer darkness.

So in this thought exercise, the Dark Tower (Gan) is the living multiverse, and self-contained within are the many SK worlds and afterworlds. But since the Tower is in decay (broken beams and such), this specific world has fractured. Much like how the beams breaking contribute to the death of some levels (ie the Stand world), the decay of reality has left the Revival world with an unfortunate connection to the Lovecraftian nightmares of the Prim. Mother is a greater beast of the Prim and the small door is an exit from Gan into chaos in the most literal sense. I don't think that the alternate worlds would have to connect here, maybe they still meet in the clearing at the end of the path.

On a side note, I wonder if tinkering with the secret electricity and universal force contributed to the downfall of Midworld. Seems like something North Central Positronics would be all about.

...I like your line of reasoning...I picked up on that "scent" as well....

 

[notebookgirl]

Chrome Roses, Joyland, The Gunslingers, all references to other books in this one. I just finished last night and I loved it. The music references are great. I am a bass player so I know "Everything starts at E" very well. Of course, expect if you are Keith Richards, where all things start with G.

 

[GNTLGNT]

Chrome Roses, Joyland, The Gunslingers, all references to other books in this one. I just finished last night and I loved it. The music references are great. I am a bass player so I know "Everything starts at E" very well. Of course, expect if you are Keith Richards, where all things start with G.

...or "D" for drugs & drink....

 

[KingAHolic]

I'll be honest, I thought the Novel was predictable. And I saw nothing "shocking" about the ending either. To be honest, that vision of the after-life, although bad, was pretty weak I think.... he's the master story-teller, no doubt, but, I thought the storyline had incredible potential to be one of his best ever. I think it fell short.

 

[Sweet One]

Here is a blog post made in regard to revival:

Spirituality Issues: Stephen King's Revival

I repaet what I have already said here, plus some observations about the story and how it relates to religion.

 

[FlakeNoir]

Here is a blog post made in regard to revival:

Spirituality Issues: Stephen King's Revival

I repaet what I have already said here, plus some observations about the story and how it relates to religion.

I'm just going to move your thread into the area of the board where it is okay to share personal blogs.

 

[Heathiopia]

The "real world" being Cyclopean ruins where human beings work in endless, deathless suffering to serve the meaningless aims of some nonsensical being, deprived of all companionship and culture and warmth and everything that we would say makes us human, is the ultimate expression of the brutal injustice of the universe, and that'd been heavily hinted at the whole time. The nihilistic message of "Life has no purpose, no meaning, no reward" is central to cosmic horror, and ties the book off perfectly.

Contrast this with the everyday joys Jamie experiences throughout the story: his army men, music, his first kiss, family ties. I agree the book seems nihilistic but perhaps King is trying to show us that in our obsession with religion and what comes next we shouldn't miss out on the present. In the end SK imagines an afterlife so horrible and beyond our comprehension that by comparison 'nothingness' might not be so bad. Carpe Diem!