Jerome's Jive

[kingricefan]

While reading Mr. Mercedes and coming upon Jerome's 'jive talk', there were a few times where I cringed. I felt it was too over the top. IMHO it was not something that a black teenager would be saying, even if it is to an older mentor/friend who was 'of that era'. I didn't like it when it showed up in Finders Keepers either. It was jarring to me, and as someone else posted, it took me out of the story. I am a middle-aged gay white male, and in my teens I had a black girlfriend (I was exploring ) and never once did I hear her or any of our black friends speak this way and that was back in the 70's. We had our way of saying things back then, but it was never anything like the 'Jerome speak'.

 

[mjs9153]

I have a friend I worked with in the eighties,don't see him much anymore,but back then,when we were in our twenties,yes,he did talk like that as satire and for comedy..we weren't much more than kids,I suppose nowadays he wouldn't even think of doing that..even back then,it was uncomfortable.I think when you are a kid,you do and say things you think are funny,and to a point are,but like anything we can overdo..reminds me of Richard Pryor,and what he said about his use of the N word..

 

[staropeace]

Uncle Steve is not comfortable ...yet... with black characters. That is the impression I get. He has a heart of gold but it is not necessary to call attention to the fact that the character is a black person. He just does not do this well. I do not think he is prejudize at all. He just misses the boat on this somehow.

 

[CrimsonKingAH]

Maine.. One of the least African American population in the U.S... right? What is it.. around 1-2% ? So maybe the kid over compensated on the jive talk because he wanted to make fun of the fact he was black in a white town. Black kid makes fun of himself being black. Fat kid makes fun of the fact he is fat. SK does this in his books. It is how kids deal with things that bother them.
I grew up hearing this type of crap. Now I hear a new type of crap. It's all crap... and kids talk it. Personally, I didn't care for it in the book, but I didn't read any more in to it than he was a kid being silly and in Finders Keepers he was growing out of it.

 

[mjs9153]

Maine.. One of the least African American population in the U.S... right? What is it.. around 1-2% ? So maybe the kid over compensated on the jive talk because he wanted to make fun of the fact he was black in a white town. Black kid makes fun of himself being black. Fat kid makes fun of the fact he is fat. SK does this in his books. It is how kids deal with things that bother them.
I grew up hearing this type of crap. Now I hear a new type of crap. It's all crap... and kids talk it. Personally, I didn't care for it in the book, but I didn't read any more in to it than he was a kid being silly and in Finders Keepers he was growing out of it.

But finders keepers is not set in Maine, it is set in a Midwestern city, not specified exactly where.. And from the description, a fairly good sized city..

 

[CrimsonKingAH]

But finders keepers is not set in Maine, it is set in a Midwestern city, not specified exactly where. . And from the description, a fairly good sized city..

If I remember correctly, it is stated in the book there are no blacks in his neighborhood.?

 

[Walter Oobleck]

Was the comedy series called Good Times? Don't recall exactly the name of the sit-com nor do I recall the name of the actor, younger man, who seemed to be a parody of the jive-talkin black youth. Dyn-o-mite! Welcome Back Kotter/Cotter...another from back in the day. All the assorted theme characters in that one, black white hispanic, all parodying the roles society provided. So could be that my take on Jerome is colored by having watched those shows. I read Jerome's character as parodying the stereotype and I'd witnessed it while in the service and it was obvious to all that a parody was being performed. Wasn't there a scene in Mercedes where the cop tells the kid stop that? Memory, have that Anderson's disease mayhap, that makes you forget things.

heard Toni Morrison talking on the radio last night, driving back from an estimate...talking about her life, a new story out, God Bless the Child...but memory again, faulty. Sounds like she looks at degrees of color. I thought Mike and his old man were spot on. Put me over the hump!

 

[AnnaMarie]

I was also thinking, that he was wanting to come off as the "subservient" stereotype of the 50s, and rap dialect wouldn't fit that at all. THat is a more angry, in your face, here-is-my opinion type voice, it wouldn't have worked.

Huh?What do the fifties have to do with it DJ,the books are set in the late 2000's.Did

In the first book, didn't Jerome originally do yard work for him? And even in this book, he is helping him...I always assumed that was why he goofed around with this talk which always made sense to me to be in a "subservient" way.

 

[deeda]

Moved your comment to an existing thread on the topic. Read through and see what you think.

Thanks. i wish I'd seen this thread before posting so I could have added to it in context. I didn't read Mr. Mercedes so my point of reference is from Finders Keepers.

 

[skimom2]

Thanks. i wish I'd seen this thread before posting so I could have added to it in context. I didn't read Mr. Mercedes so my point of reference is from Finders Keepers.

There was more discussion in the Finders Keepers and Mr. Mercedes threads. It makes me cringe every time.

 

[mjs9153]

If I remember correctly, it is stated in the book there are no blacks in his neighborhood.?

I think so,if memory serves his parents live in a wealthy section of the city,which is fictional,but from the description,an airport,an interstate running through it,a large convention center which seats thousands,I just figured it was a medium to large size city..

 

[mjs9153]

Was the comedy series called Good Times? Don't recall exactly the name of the sit-com nor do I recall the name of the actor, younger man, who seemed to be a parody of the jive-talkin black youth. Dyn-o-mite! Welcome Back Kotter/Cotter...another from back in the day. All the assorted theme characters in that one, black white hispanic, all parodying the roles society provided. So could be that my take on Jerome is colored by having watched those shows. I read Jerome's character as parodying the stereotype and I'd witnessed it while in the service and it was obvious to all that a parody was being performed. Wasn't there a scene in Mercedes where the cop tells the kid stop that? Memory, have that Anderson's disease mayhap, that makes you forget things.

heard Toni Morrison talking on the radio last night, driving back from an estimate...talking about her life, a new story out, God Bless the Child...but memory again, faulty. Sounds like she looks at degrees of color. I thought Mike and his old man were spot on. Put me over the hump!

Jimmie Walker,as JJ,aka Kid Dynomite!!

 

[deeda]

I think the most charitable interpretation of it is that it's sort of like Richie's Voices in IT. I know that sometimes, I will get a little over-the-top about something when I'm trying to be funny and just pound it into the ground.

Jerome (like Richie) is a really smart and sharp-witted young man, and I think this is one of the ways that he sheds excess energy. And as a young black man in an upscale city neighbourhood, it's not surprising that he both satirizes and embraces a persona that is problematic for him.

That make sense?

I could buy that if it was just Jerome's quirk but there's a constant theme of stereotypes in King's work that smack of racism. The trope of the hulking, bald, menacing black dude (aka McFarland, Bellamy's parole officer in Finders Keepers) is so old it creaks. King seems intent on proving he's keeping up with the times (via references to technology, pop culture, etc.) but lack awareness of how he perpetuates racial stereotypes. "Blackness" is a spectrum that King should explore and present with more fluency if he dares to present it at all.

 

[MadamMack]

...Jerome is just jivin'...offensive to some?.....most certainly, but I found it funny....

I did too and I'm considered high yella . . .Giant, you look fine as hell in that photo. No dis 'pect!

 

[RichardX]

I could buy that if it was just Jerome's quirk but there's a constant theme of stereotypes in King's work that smack of racism. The trope of the hulking, bald, menacing black dude (aka McFarland, Bellamy's parole officer in Finders Keepers) is so old it creaks. King seems intent on proving he's keeping up with the times (via references to technology, pop culture, etc.) but lack awareness of how he perpetuates racial stereotypes. "Blackness" is a spectrum that King should explore and present with more fluency if he dares to present it at all.

I think King often stereotypes along liberal lines rather than engages in racism. For example, children and elderly black women often have special powers. Good white males are often those who teach or are authors. Bad ones are often authority figures like military or police. King is too old to change his world view and I doubt he has any interest in doing so having done pretty well. His books are meant to be entertaining best sellers. When you are rich, famous, and aging it's likely difficult to keep in touch with a younger crowd that he rarely encounters. And that is sometimes reflected in his recent books. But he still tells a good story. If you want a treatise on race from him, I think you will be disappointed and there are likely plenty of books along those lines by others.

 

[GNTLGNT]

I did too and I'm considered high yella . . .Giant, you look fine as hell in that photo. No dis 'pect!

...why I do declair ma'am, y'all make this hyar old white feller raht happy!.....

 

[MadamMack]

...why I do declair ma'am, y'all make this hyar old white feller raht happy!.....

 

[mjs9153]

I could buy that if it was just Jerome's quirk but there's a constant theme of stereotypes in King's work that smack of racism. The trope of the hulking, bald, menacing black dude (aka McFarland, Bellamy's parole officer in Finders Keepers) is so old it creaks. King seems intent on proving he's keeping up with the times (via references to technology, pop culture, etc.) but lack awareness of how he perpetuates racial stereotypes. "Blackness" is a spectrum that King should explore and present with more fluency if he dares to present it at all.

"Smack of racism"..are you kidding here,I hope so,if you are implying that he is racist,you are way wrong..apparently you haven't read all his works.If you are going to take those two examples and base that as your idea that he is racist,you are really reaching..he describes people,many that are just like those ones out in the world,with great accuracy.He never has come across as racist,in any of his books,I am guessing you just don't read them..or read only what you wish to interpret in your own way.Sorry to come across as defensive,but your interpretation is just wrong..

 

[CrimsonKingAH]

I agree.. he is not a racist, at all.

 

[Owenk]

Is Jerome supposed to remind me of Sussanah Dean was a thought that popped through my head today when I was listening to the audiobook.