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Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dr. Fudd, Nov 30, 2013.
♥ I was afraid it wouldn't make sense
it made perfect sense...and when you speak from the heart, it always does....
A prophetess speaks of Jesus coming in the second Chapter of Luke (2:36-38)... kind of hard to prophesy and yet not speak to the church isn't it?
"36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem."
That's a good example of women serving the church....and proof of my point. There were many women of faith who spoke prophecy, and served in other ways.
Paul wouldn't have liked it.....
I used the examples I did because they were more in the forefront of my memory, and since Paul was mentioned, I used ones that were closer to his time period
He might've changed his mind at some point: Acts - 21:8-9
On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.
It doesn't say he encouraged it.....and it it doesn't say he set them as leaders....it actually only says they had the gift of prophecy
It is later in the book of 1 Timothy that Paul makes this statement
"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression," (1 Tim. 2:12-14
Paul and Mark had a falling out... he wasn't shy about separating himself from those he had strong differences with, so I take the it as an implication that he accepted Philip's promotion of his daughters...
The letter Paul wrote to Timothy was some time after his visit with Phillip. Accepting the gift of prophecy is different from allowing a woman to teach or have leadership.
I can't find any reference to Paul allowing a woman to teach or have any authority in the church. He did allow women to "take instructions" from a man....
Like I said, I'm not a scholar....it may be there, but I have never found it.
According to Jewish custom women weren't even allowed into the Synagogue... Paul violated that rule by bringing them in there.... he may have gotten beaten and left outside of a city for dead because of that, regardless of his other failings in personal opinion...
After the crucifixion and resurrection, the new church was no longer bound to Jewish customs or to the old law.....previously, most of these people had been considered Gentiles......they were now Christians
As in the letter to the Hebrews he went into the Jewish synagogues in the company of women where it was still forbidden...
In the whole of scripture, you and others belong in a position that follows God's authority to share with those who are dying and homeless on the streets...
If you don't believe the bible is God breathed then we'll not agree on much. I believe that God wrote the bible with men, in the same way as you're writing these posts. He inspired them and I believe God wouldn't leave us with an error filled text to guide us.
Jesus didn't tell his disciples how to preach as much as show His disciples how to preach. If calling people vipers and saying that unbelievers and those who denied God would go to hell in nearly every parable is any indication of what Jesus expected of His followers? Jesus preached a pretty sobering message and by His preaching he taught His disciples. What is more obvious is that Jesus preached compassion to sinners and fire to those claiming to believe in God, something I can only hope to learn.
Jesus appearing to Mary is a call for women to be deacons? Eph 5:23 might disagree with that. You'd think if that were the case, there would have been female Apostles but whether or not women should be in preaching ministry doesn't concern me.
Ghandi identified religion in his estimation of Christians. Belief in Jesus is not a religion, it's a relationship. My concern for people who claim to believe in Jesus is just as great as for those that haven't accepted Christ. Sinners will know who they are when they stand before Jesus, but those who say Lord Lord will believe they were saved but Jesus will say He never knew them. What could be more tragic than that?
They were free from needing the law to be saved, they still had to follow the law. It just didn't require the blood of animals to redeem them because Christ was the perfect sacrifice for once and for all.
When did I say that? I stopped reading after that sentence......It's as if you think you have the only opinion or interpretation that matters....
enjoy your hollering about hell and brimstone..... There's just no reasoning with a closed mind..... I'm done.
@Ebdim9th ....Phil, I enjoyed chatting with you.....you brought up some good points. I am not familiar at all with Jewish custom, and will be looking into learning more about the culture
In your comments about what Paul said you said these things were his opinion. Are you saying you don't believe that what Paul wrote is God's opinion?
How do you know that it was the opinion of Jesus?
I can't tell who you're responding to here without you quoting the post you're responding to or giving more background on your question.
I know that in reading the verse in 1 Timothy....Paul's exact words are "I do not allow...." He did not say the Lord does not allow, or Jesus said do not allow, nor even God's law does not allow. Nope, Paul said "I do not allow...." This is a really good indication that it is his own preference, his own perception, and his own opinion. Again, in looking at your reference to Ephesians, it is another letter written by Paul to that church. I don't doubt that Paul wrote what he felt was according to his belief, but it was still Paul doing the speaking, and I still have to believe it was his own personal interpretation. Not trying to take away from the work Paul did, but he was like any modern day pastor....inspired by God, yes....but also very much human and possessing his own free will and opinion.
As for Jesus appearing to Mary first...before any other living person......Surely you who have studied and know so much....surely you don't write that off to a mere coincidence?? Jesus could have easily walked up to those sleeping guards and yelled Boo!....he could have, but he waited right there for Mary, who he knew would be walking down that path. He also didn't tell her to take him to his disciples.....he knew they were hiding and where...for that matter, he could have appeared to them first if he had chosen....but he didn't. He also didn't ask her to leave the upper room when he gave the gift of the Holy Spirit to the others......you can't write that off as coincidence or writer's error....because you don't believe in writer's error do you?
In reading all of your posts and replies, I'm finding only one constant, and that is your own need to always have the last word. I thought this was supposed to be an open study/discussion, but you refuse to hear the opinion or consideration of anyone else. You have even come very close to accusing fellow believers of not really believing what they claim. I'm not sure what your real purpose is, but I know I don't want any part of it. You're walking a fine line between sharing what you believe and being judgmental. If you ever really expect to win others for the Lord, I would suggest that you temper yourself and your opinion a little better. Repetition, scare tactics and browbeating might work for some, but it will never be effective for anyone with much intelligence...you can't take the speck out of my eye when you have a log protruding from yours.....that's scriptural....you'll find it.
In my own walk of faith I have been taught to study to show myself approved.....that's also scriptural.....and that's what I do....I study.
No need for you to reply directly to me....I've shaken the dust from my sandals, and am moving on.
You've made valid points about my witnessing. I continue to try to learn how to speak the truth in love. My continual problem is in the accuracy of Gods word. I come off as harsh because I don't allow myself leeway in reading Gods word. Leeway I should be allowing others because everyone moves at their own pace and understanding. I hold to, if it's in the bible, it's there because God wants it there. Whether or not it sounds like the writers personal preference, God wrote it. I don't want to stand before Jesus and say, I thought that was just someones opinion, or, I didn't think you really mean it that way. As if I'm going to be able to speak at all. My desire is for people to take all of the bible into consideration when accepting anything in the bible. But I'm not very good at it, I do tend to hack an ear off here and there in my attempt to follow Gods word. I'm sorry for upsetting you.