King Jv

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dr. Fudd, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    That's what I'm saying an idol is. I think God's concerned about idol's within and without the church assembly, regardless of denomination, and I think idols take on all kinds of forms including humans, and measurements for status.
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  2. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    This discussion began with, to catch you up, is it wrong to create an image or likeness when the object itself is specifically prohibited as in the 10 commandments. The discussion has tended toward idolatry, but the question was about making and displaying the image itself, regardless if it's idolized or not.
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  3. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    Remind me please what is specifically prohibited. I mean, just what the 10 Commandments says about those things including what they are.
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  4. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    Exodus 20 beginning in verse 3. Images are spoken of in verse 4.
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  5. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    You mean I need to have a bible at the ready? :) Ok, I'll look that up...
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  6. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

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  7. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven [italics added] image, or any likeness [italics added] of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
    20:5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments… Is the question whether or not God wants us to create images? Because, despite the fact that it could be interpreted to read as if, reason dictates that He certainly does not mean that; and so, what does He mean? I feel safe in assuming that what He means He means in context, which in the case of the scriptures above means that He doesn't want us to worship any person or thing but Him, period.

    Ok, thanx for the above link. I may decide to use it later. I have a couple of Bibles downloaded which I can use, but the link might prove better.
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  8. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    The context is what gives me pause. It states all of these in the context of worship. What we do in private and what we do corporately as His church, the body of Christ. To not make images that we would be bowing down before. When it's so plainly stated, I don't see why interpreting it any further is necessary. Jesus is the focus. Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit does not want us to focus our eyes on a thing, but our hearts and our soul our minds and our strength on Jesus (you may recognize what I just said as a verse.Mark12:30,Luke10:27). My question is and has always been, if it says that and if there could be a problem with it, why take the chance? Why not just do what it says? Let the plain things remain the plain things.
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  9. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure I'm not getting what you are describing by "plain things".
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  10. SusanNorton
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    SusanNorton Beatle Groupie

    The Old Testament did not give us God as human. The New Testament, the new covenant, gave us God as Man - we've seen him, and walked with him. To look upon an artist's representation of His image, not in worship but as a gentle reminder when our too-human brains lose focus on what is important, is not the same as bowing down in worship to some grotesquerie created for the purpose of worship, by a mind that can't comprehend God because He hasn't yet been sent to us as human.
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  11. SusanNorton
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    SusanNorton Beatle Groupie

    That's just my opinion. I'm Catholic. There's no idolatry going on in my church - just a group of Christians loving the Lord with all their heart, all their soul, and all their mind. The stuff hanging on the walls, or standing in the corners, is just stuff.
  12. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    Plain:
    1. Free from obstructions; open; clear: in plain view.
    2. Obvious to the mind; evident: make one's intention plain. See Synonyms at apparent.
    3. Not elaborate or complicated; simple: plain food.
    4. Straightforward; frank or candid: plain talk.
    5. Not mixed with other substances; pure: plain water.
    6. Common in rank or station; average; ordinary: a plain man.
    7. Not pretentious; unaffected.
    8. Marked by little or no ornamentation or decoration.
    9. Not dyed, twilled, or patterned: a plain fabric.
    10. Lacking beauty or distinction: a plain face.
    11. Sheer; utter; unqualified: plain stupidity.
    12. Archaic Having no visible elevation or depression; flat; level.

    Choices 1 and 2 spell it out.
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  13. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    I am unfamiliar with Catholic doctrine, ritual, and routine, but there are a number of professing Catholics who I've encountered whose faith and attitude I've been very pleasantly impressed by. I was raised in the Episcopal church, but am not currently a member. The most recent church I've attended has been a Church of God.
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  14. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    Ok, good, but I'm still unclear as to your application of the phrase "plain things" here. Can you give me a specific example of something in context which can be plain vs not plain? The definitions are only asking me to jump to a conclusion of some kind, see?
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  15. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    I fully understand the mind set of what you are saying. But I still can't get past the fact that it's forbidden stuff if you read the context of the commandments against such things. Skimom was very helpful in stating the basis by which she operates in relation to statues and crosses and I've heard that for many years from other professing Catholics. But why have the stuff on the walls if the stuff on the walls is forbidden by the book that governs the people within those walls?
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  16. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    I personally am not seeing what you must be, as I don't see that the items I'm forced to assume you're referring to as what God was talking about.
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  17. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    Plain being, it says don't make likenesses of things in relationship to worship, yet, there they are.
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  18. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    I disagree that it says that.
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  19. Dr. Fudd
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    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    Then what does it say?
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  20. blunthead
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    blunthead Well-Known Member

    It says to have no other gods before Him. To create an image and not worship it is not the same as to create an image and worship it.
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