May 4, 1970--Kent State

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Spideyman

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Just north of Duma Key
May 4, 1970: Guardsmen open fire on Kent State protesters


On May 4, 1970, after days of unrest over America's invasion of Cambodia during the Vietnam War, student protesters at Kent State University clashed with Ohio National Guardsmen. The guardsmen opened fire, killing four students and wounding nine others.


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Kent State: The photo that changed America

"Some people here believe the Guard, under the pressure of a rock throwing attack, fired its weapons indiscriminately, killing four people," CBS News correspondent Ike Pappas reported from the scene.

The protests began after President Richard Nixon announced the invasion on April 30th. Students rallied on campus over the next four days, at one point setting the ROTC building on fire and rioting in downtown Kent.

With the local police force stretched thin, the Ohio National Guard was called in, and school officials banned a rally planned for May 4th due to the potential for more violence.

But the students still gathered as planned. After repeated warnings to disperse, tear gas canisters were fired into the crowd. A group of students began throwing the tear gas, as well as rocks and sticks, back at the guardsmen.

"A few kids were throwing sticks and stones, but that was only a handful, not more than ten, fifteen," one student told CBS News.

Eventually, more than seventy troops advanced on the students. Tensions escalated, and twenty-eight guardsmen fired their weapons into the crowd of demonstrators.

"All of a sudden I heard them shooting, then I saw people dropping to the ground. Then I dropped to the ground," the student said.

image6460342x.jpg

A scene from the May 4, 1970 protest at Kent State University in Ohio in which four students were killed by National Guard troops.

CBS
It is still unclear exactly why the guardsmen decided to fire into a group of unarmed students. Some testified during the investigation that they felt they were being surrounded, and their lives were in danger.

Another theory was that they fired after a sniper opened fire on the troops from a rooftop nearby, as the then-Adjutant General of the Ohio National Guard said in a statement to the New York Times on the day of the shooting.

"What the investigators have to determine then is whether indeed there was a sniper, and whether the Guard was justified in firing its weapons," reported Pappas.

"This should remind us all once again that when dissent turns to violence it invites tragedy," President Nixon said in response to the tragic events.


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An American Tragedy

Instead of leading to a decrease in protests around the country, they actually escalated even further. Many colleges and universities shut down their campuses for fear of similar violence. Kent State closed after the shooting, and didn't reopen until six weeks later for summer classes.

Protests wound down after President Nixon began to withdraw U.S. troops from Vietnam, but the shooting remained as a lasting symbol of a nation deeply divided by the war. The unrest later inspired the Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young song "Ohio."

Eight guardsmen were eventually indicted by a grand jury, but the case was later dismissed over a lack of evidence.
 

Grandpa

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Okay, I know this source has been quoted a number of times in these here parts, but what kind of a rag is it, anyway? And I hope this doesn't blast over into Hot Topics. If that's the result, I'd rather have this post deleted and redo it.

It says the Guard fired when confronted by angry, rock-throwing students. In fact, that was not happening at the time. The closest of the four students who were killed was 265 feet away. The others were all more than a football field away. That is someone with a serious arm. They should be in the major leagues.

Of the four students killed, two were indeed demonstrators. One was a curious onlooker, an ROTC student. Another was walking across campus.

For a pretty clear, well-researched, objective report, read James Michener's Kent State: What Happened and Why. A photograph in there is seared into my brain cells. I can't find it right now, but a photographer was on top of the hill, photographing the Guardsman who had just walked up. The firing had just started, ragged, undisciplined (and their CO was turning around, startled). One of the Guardsmen was in a kneeling, shooting position, and the camera was literally looking down the barrel of his gun. The photographer hit the ground, and bullet went into the structure behind him. (Maybe one of those phantom "sniper" bullets referred to.)

I understand that the ROTC building had been burned down and there was rioting the night before. That's reprehensible, and it would be nice to have seen those perps punished. I understand that the Guardsmen were hot, tired, and frustrated. They had already locked and loaded once on people who weren't all that close, without firing. But doggone it, if you're going to wear a military uniform and have an M-14 in your hands, then have some fire discipline. Otherwise, innocent people get shot and killed. Which is what happened here. "I'm p!ssed at these kids. I'll fire at those guys 300 feet away." Um, no.
 

DiO'Bolic

Not completely obtuse
Nov 14, 2013
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Okay, I know this source has been quoted a number of times in these here parts, but what kind of a rag is it, anyway? And I hope this doesn't blast over into Hot Topics. If that's the result, I'd rather have this post deleted and redo it.
The Washington Times is often utilized as one of the reputable sources at RealClearPolitics.com (the site I primarily go to for news because they often provide articles from differing news sources with varied views on a particular topic).

Another source if it matters...
Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings (audio) | cleveland.com
 

Grandpa

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
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The Washington Times is often utilized as one of the reputable sources at RealClearPolitics.com (the site I primarily go to for news because they often provide articles from differing news sources with varied views on a particular topic).

Another source if it matters...
Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings (audio) | cleveland.com

Not surprising that there was "pistol" fire heard. Please check out the guy on the left of the photo.

JDarnellKentStatePagodaGuardsmen.jpeg


Apparently, the Washington Times was started by the Rev. Moon of the Unification Church. Huh. At any rate, they may have great news in there, but the content in this article was heavily biased and in silly ways. Really, they're saying that phantom snipers and rock throwers from a football field away made the National Guardsmen fan they're fire out over a 250-yard radius to the students below and mow down whatever students happened to be passing by. I must take exception.
 

DiO'Bolic

Not completely obtuse
Nov 14, 2013
22,864
129,998
Poconos, PA
Not surprising that there was "pistol" fire heard. Please check out the guy on the left of the photo.

JDarnellKentStatePagodaGuardsmen.jpeg


Apparently, the Washington Times was started by the Rev. Moon of the Unification Church. Huh. At any rate, they may have great news in there, but the content in this article was heavily biased and in silly ways. Really, they're saying that phantom snipers and rock throwers from a football field away made the National Guardsmen fan they're fire out over a 250-yard radius to the students below and mow down whatever students happened to be passing by. I must take exception.
Allsides.com notes The Washington Times as…

The Washington Times is a full-service, general interest daily newspaper in the nation's capital. Founded in 1982, The Washington Times is one of the most-often-quoted newspapers in the U.S. It has gained a reputation for hard-hitting investigative reporting and thorough coverage of politics and policy. Published by The Washington Times LLC, The Washington Times is "America's Newspaper."

Allsides.com rates the reporting from The Washington Times as just right of Center.
 
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Grandpa

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Allsides.com notes The Washington Times as…

The Washington Times is a full-service, general interest daily newspaper in the nation's capital. Founded in 1982, The Washington Times is one of the most-often-quoted newspapers in the U.S. It has gained a reputation for hard-hitting investigative reporting and thorough coverage of politics and policy. Published by The Washington Times LLC, The Washington Times is "America's Newspaper."

Allsides.com rates the reporting from The Washington Times as just right of Center.

That's nice. But that article is way off and silly on its face.

... made the National Guardsmen fan they're fire out over a 250-yard radius to the students below and mow down whatever students happened to be passing by. I must take exception.

:facepalm:
 
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Sigmund

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Hey, DiO'Bolic !

Ermmmm Washington Times?

Political stance


Times dispenser
The political leanings of The Washington Times are often described as conservative.[68][69][70] The Washington Post reported: "the Times was established by Moon to combat communism and be a conservative alternative to what he perceived as the liberal bias of The Washington Post."[9]

Conservative commentator Paul Weyrich commented:

The Washington Post became very arrogant and they just decided that they would determine what was news and what wasn't news and they wouldn't cover a lot of things that went on. And the Washington Times has forced the Post to cover a lot of things that they wouldn't cover if the Times wasn't in existence.[71]

In 2007, the Mother Jones news magazine said that the Times had become "essential reading for political news junkies" soon after its founding, and quoted James Gavin, special assistant to Bo Hi Pak:

We're trying to combat communism and we're trying to uphold traditional Judeo-Christian values. The Washington Times is standing up for those values and fighting anything that would tear them down. Causa is doing the same thing, by explaining what the enemy is trying to do.[72]

In a 2008 Harper's Magazine essay criticizing American conservatism, liberal historian[73] Thomas Frank linked the Times to the modern American conservative movement, saying:

There is even a daily newspaper—the Washington Times—published strictly for the movement's benefit, a propaganda sheet whose distortions are so obvious and so alien that it puts one in mind of those official party organs one encounters when traveling in authoritarian countries.[74]
In 2009 The New York Times reported:

With its conservative editorial bent, the paper also became a crucial training ground for many rising conservative journalists and a must-read for those in the movement. A veritable who's who of conservatives—Tony Blankley, Frank J. Gaffney Jr., Larry Kudlow, John Podhoretz and Tony Snow—has churned out copy for its pages.[41]

Though not listed, another conservative writer who trained there was New York Times op-ed columnist David Brooks, a Washington Times editorial writer in the 1980s.[75]

The Washington Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:no_pig::yes_pig:

Nuh uh.
 

Grandpa

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Mar 2, 2014
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kent_victims.jpg


The victims are shown in this photo, clockwise from top left: William Schroeder, Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nine others were wounded.

If I'm remembering right, Schroeder was an ROTC student. Krause and Miller were part of the demonstrations, and it was Miller in that iconic photograph, shot dead through the head, 260 or so feet from the Guardsmen. Scheuer wasn't involved in the demonstrations, and a Guardsman's bullet took her about from about 400 feet away.

I'm not advocating that the Guardsmen should be punished (although if this had been an Afghan village, there would have been courts-martial), but let's not apologize for it. They acted very wrongly, innocent and undeserving people were killed as a result, and let's acknowledge it and learn from it.
 

DiO'Bolic

Not completely obtuse
Nov 14, 2013
22,864
129,998
Poconos, PA
Hey, DiO'Bolic !

Ermmmm Washington Times?

Political stance


Times dispenser
The political leanings of The Washington Times are often described as conservative.[68][69][70] The Washington Post reported: "the Times was established by Moon to combat communism and be a conservative alternative to what he perceived as the liberal bias of The Washington Post."[9]

Conservative commentator Paul Weyrich commented:

The Washington Post became very arrogant and they just decided that they would determine what was news and what wasn't news and they wouldn't cover a lot of things that went on. And the Washington Times has forced the Post to cover a lot of things that they wouldn't cover if the Times wasn't in existence.[71]

In 2007, the Mother Jones news magazine said that the Times had become "essential reading for political news junkies" soon after its founding, and quoted James Gavin, special assistant to Bo Hi Pak:

We're trying to combat communism and we're trying to uphold traditional Judeo-Christian values. The Washington Times is standing up for those values and fighting anything that would tear them down. Causa is doing the same thing, by explaining what the enemy is trying to do.[72]

In a 2008 Harper's Magazine essay criticizing American conservatism, liberal historian[73] Thomas Frank linked the Times to the modern American conservative movement, saying:

There is even a daily newspaper—the Washington Times—published strictly for the movement's benefit, a propaganda sheet whose distortions are so obvious and so alien that it puts one in mind of those official party organs one encounters when traveling in authoritarian countries.[74]
In 2009 The New York Times reported:

With its conservative editorial bent, the paper also became a crucial training ground for many rising conservative journalists and a must-read for those in the movement. A veritable who's who of conservatives—Tony Blankley, Frank J. Gaffney Jr., Larry Kudlow, John Podhoretz and Tony Snow—has churned out copy for its pages.[41]

Though not listed, another conservative writer who trained there was New York Times op-ed columnist David Brooks, a Washington Times editorial writer in the 1980s.[75]

The Washington Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:no_pig::yes_pig:

Nuh uh.
Yes, just right of Center in their reporting. Just as The New York Times is just left of Center in their reporting.
 
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