Screen names: newbies vs. vets

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morgan

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2010
29,353
104,579
North Dakota
Janis Ian knew that kind of woman very well as her song "At Seventeen" describes:

I learned the truth at seventeen
That love was meant for beauty queens
And high school girls with clear-skinned smiles
Who married young and then retired

The valentines I never knew
The Friday night charades of youth
Were spent on one more beautiful
At seventeen I learned the truth
And those of us with ravaged faces
Lacking in the social graces
Desperately remained at home
Inventing lovers on the phone
Who called to say, "Come dance with me"
And murmured vague obscenities
It isn't all it seems at seventeen
A brown-eyed girl in hand-me-downs
Whose name I never could pronounce
Said, "Pity, please, the ones who serve
'Cause they only get what they deserve"
And the rich relationed hometown queen
Marries into what she needs
With a guarantee of company
And haven for the elderly
So remember those who win the game
Lose the love they sought to gain
In debentures of quality and dubious integrity
Their small town eyes will gape at you
In dull surprise when payment due
Exceeds accounts received at seventeen
To those of us who knew the pain
Of valentines that never came
And those whose names were never called
When choosing sides for basketball
It was long ago and far away
The world was younger than today
When dreams were all they gave for free
To ugly duckling girls like me
We all play the game and when we dare
To cheat ourselves at solitaire
Inventing lovers on the phone
Repenting other lives unknown
They call and say, "Come dance with me"
And murmur vague obscenities
At ugly girls like me at seventeen

Songwriters
Ian, Janis
Published by
Lyrics © EMI Music Publishing

Houdini in Omaha

PS I didn't know that Janis is also an author of Sci Fi work :)
Amazing song!
 

Moderator

Ms. Mod
Administrator
Jul 10, 2006
52,243
157,324
Maine
Saw her at a little club in Boston not too long after that song had made the rounds. The crowd was more than a little unhappy that she refused to sing it even though several people requested it. I guess she'd moved on but we hadn't and was one of the main reasons why we'd bought tickets.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
53,634
236,697
The High Seas
Sign of the old times: When I read Holly's post, this exact same song popped into my head.
Me too, although with a little added memory.

If you are familiar with the Roseanne show, Jackie and Roseanne take a road trip and they are reminiscing about women song artists, and [paraphrasing all of this], Roseanne says something like, "And of course, there was Janis." And Jackie says, "Ahhhh, Janis, I also learned the truth at 17." And Roseanne looks at her and says, "Not Janis Ian you idiot! Janis Joplin!"
 

Autumn Gust

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2012
3,360
15,346
We call those "pigs in a blanket!" :smile2:
Here's what we call "pigs in a blanket"--

images



I had a 1950s themed holiday party a few years ago and served these. The teens and young adults had never had them. They loved them, gobbling 'em up like they were goin' out of style! :laugh:
 

morgan

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2010
29,353
104,579
North Dakota
Saw her at a little club in Boston not too long after that song had made the rounds. The crowd was more than a little unhappy that she refused to sing it even though several people requested it. I guess she'd moved on but we hadn't and was one of the main reasons why we'd bought tickets.
That is very sad. I wonder if she was experiencing a little too much pride because of her recent success. I've seen videos on YouTube of her performing that song within the last few years. Funny how realizing what she was most famous for, made her embrace it again. She should've been remembering the lyrics and meaning of the song that night in Boston! :smile:
 

Moderator

Ms. Mod
Administrator
Jul 10, 2006
52,243
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Maine
I saw her at the Kerrville Folk Festival in 2001 -- she was one of the biggest draws, along with Peter, Paul & Mary. I'm pretty sure she sang it that night.
Maybe after close to 30 years she realized she needed to be including it in her repertoire! ;) Hmmm....think maybe I've got this one confused after looking back to find the year. It couldn't have been At Seventeen because that was released in 1975. It must have been Society's Child I was thinking of as that one came out in '67.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
53,634
236,697
The High Seas
Me too, although with a little added memory.

If you are familiar with the Roseanne show, Jackie and Roseanne take a road trip and they are reminiscing about women song artists, and [paraphrasing all of this], Roseanne says something like, "And of course, there was Janis." And Jackie says, "Ahhhh, Janis, I also learned the truth at 17." And Roseanne looks at her and says, "Not Janis Ian you idiot! Janis Joplin!"
I think I watch too much Roseanne.
 

Out of Order

Sign of the Times
Feb 9, 2011
29,007
162,154
New Hampster
Maybe after close to 30 years she realized she needed to be including it in her repertoire! ;) Hmmm....think maybe I've got this one confused after looking back to find the year. It couldn't have been At Seventeen because that was released in 1975. It must have been Society's Child I was thinking of as that one came out in '67.

Ah well, the memory is the first thing to go......:p
 

Grandpa

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
9,724
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Colorado
Y'know (musing) I liked the song okay but wasn't really enamored with it. It seemed ... pious? sanctimonious? ... in some ways, not to mention bitter, and I agree with the person who said that bitterness is a parasite that consumes the host.

And.... it was full of resentfulness over other people being attractive and not having to work so hard and then hoping karma bites them in the a$$. Well, it's like Harold in The Stand said cynically but correctly: The world is a beauty pageant. And if you can't wow them walking down the runway, you're better off gettting over it quickly and finding other ways to announce your presence with authority.

And certainly, Ms. Ian wouldn't be the first earnest artist to spurn her commercial work for not being artistically satisfying, but then turning back to it in later years because 1) people love it and 2) they love you for it and 3) it pays the stinkin' rent.
 

Houdini

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2014
295
1,418
USA
Y'know (musing) I liked the song okay but wasn't really enamored with it. It seemed ... pious? sanctimonious? ... in some ways, not to mention bitter, and I agree with the person who said that bitterness is a parasite that consumes the host.

And.... it was full of resentfulness over other people being attractive and not having to work so hard and then hoping karma bites them in the a$$. Well, it's like Harold in The Stand said cynically but correctly: The world is a beauty pageant. And if you can't wow them walking down the runway, you're better off gettting over it quickly and finding other ways to announce your presence with authority.

And certainly, Ms. Ian wouldn't be the first earnest artist to spurn her commercial work for not being artistically satisfying, but then turning back to it in later years because 1) people love it and 2) they love you for it and 3) it pays the stinkin' rent.

You'll have to admit that there really is a caste system in place in high school: the beautiful people, the jocks, the nerds, the rich, the poor, the untouchables etc. Janis was probably an outcast because she had a brain and used it. I certainly wasn't with the "in-crowd" but I wasn't a social leper either. But I do get angry at the insensitivity so well expressed in Janis's song.

Houdini in Omaha
 

Lily Sawyer

B-ReadAndWed
Jun 27, 2009
6,625
15,016
South Carolina
You'll have to admit that there really is a caste system in place in high school: the beautiful people, the jocks, the nerds, the rich, the poor, the untouchables etc. Janis was probably an outcast because she had a brain and used it. I certainly wasn't with the "in-crowd" but I wasn't a social leper either. But I do get angry at the insensitivity so well expressed in Janis's song.

Houdini in Omaha
I love Janis Ian. She now lives here in Nashville.

My moniker is a character name from my favorite King oeuvre. While I know many people here by their real names, I respect the unspoken rule that referring to someone publicly by their real name without their permission is tacky, a little dangerous, and kind of creepy. I just don't do it.
 

Grandpa

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
9,724
53,642
Colorado
You'll have to admit that there really is a caste system in place in high school: the beautiful people, the jocks, the nerds, the rich, the poor, the untouchables etc. Janis was probably an outcast because she had a brain and used it. I certainly wasn't with the "in-crowd" but I wasn't a social leper either. But I do get angry at the insensitivity so well expressed in Janis's song.

Houdini in Omaha

Oh, they were valid observations. I actually was rather an outcast in high school, and I've not gone back to a single reunion because there's nothing that I experienced, no friends I made, that I wish to revisit.

Now, a lot of that "outcast" stuff came from choices I made, and I can't completely blame others' arrogance for it. I did find out that the absolute best way to deal with it was to live life the way I felt best and let others live as they wanted; and if I didn't like what they did, I generally had the choice to not join in. It's better to forget about those people than to let them continue to affect you.
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
61,289
239,271
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I simply meant it in an "I can only speak for myself" kind of way, not a "you're mistaken" one. I must say, in my short time on these boards, I've encountered quite a few testy members who seem loathe to give me the benefit of the doubt. I just came here to have fun, y'all. I'm a lover, not a fighter.
Don't give up - I had a wee problem a couple of years ago (not mentioning any names) but we ended up forgiving and forgetting. It is no use keeping grudges.

Just keep on posting! Enjoy the board! - there are so many different threads, you will be sure to find a place to hang out :grinning: