Screenwriting questions.

[50's Kid]

I admire your determination OP.

Fourteen years is one hell of a long time. Lesser mortals like me would have thrown in the towel by now.

It can get discouraging, and frankly, I sometimes get a little (well, more than a little) ticked off at the whole situation. But, I strongly feel that my stories are good, and refuse to stop beating on doors until I get someone to at least look at them.
I tell friends that perhaps I should walk down Santa Monica Blvd., naked, carrying only my script, to get some attention. However, I would probably just blend in with all of the other writers seeking a reading...
I am not alone in this struggle. Many authors have spent years trying to get published. While some luck out and make a connection quickly, a long, uphill fight seems to be more the norm.
I think you should give yourself some credit, though. I believe you would not give up, either. The human spirit is a powerful thing.

 

[blunthead]

Whose fantasy? White middle class males. There wasn't much for women and minorities.

It was a man's world then, but they were the breadwinners, and money talks. Societal "equality" has evolved due to opportunity created by affluence, which was created via hard work, so that women and minorities could make some demands. This evolution has been a good thing, except to the extent that still certain aspects of society are mistrusted - this time white males. Bias is inescapable human nature. The pendulum simply swings.

I remember TV commercials; if they included a female, she was always portrayed in the classic role of the day: housewife, and then chronically as silly or even stupid, while the male always had it together, was wise, had the answers. Forget ever seeing anyone of color, or any other minority segment of society represented in a commercial. I noticed this and resented it, being raised not to be prejudiced or unfairly biased. Nowadays, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a TV showing a commercial depicting a white male as silly or stupid.

 

[Flat Matt]

It can get discouraging, and frankly, I sometimes get a little (well, more than a little) ticked off at the whole situation. But, I strongly feel that my stories are good, and refuse to stop beating on doors until I get someone to at least look at them.
I tell friends that perhaps I should walk down Santa Monica Blvd., naked, carrying only my script, to get some attention. However, I would probably just blend in with all of the other writers seeking a reading...
I am not alone in this struggle. Many authors have spent years trying to get published. While some luck out and make a connection quickly, a long, uphill fight seems to be more the norm.
I think you should give yourself some credit, though. I believe you would not give up, either. The human spirit is a powerful thing.

All I can say is stick with it.

As you said previously, it's like a vicious circle and that's why I have decided to self publish my first novel and avoid wasting my time with agents and publishers. Unfortunately, it's different with screenplays, so you don't have that luxury.

I don't know if this already exists or not, but it would be great if there were some kind of online library where screenwriters could upload their scripts for the world to see and potentially buy. I don't doubt that there are some truly gifted people out there who might be sitting on screenplays that could go down in history as classics if they ever made it on to the big screen.

Unfortunately, talent isn't enough and never really has been. It's often a case of who you know or being in the right place at the right time. It's difficult to get noticed when no one knows who you are!

 

[skimom2]

All I can say is stick with it.

As you said previously, it's like a vicious circle and that's why I have decided to self publish my first novel and avoid wasting my time with agents and publishers. Unfortunately, it's different with screenplays, so you don't have that luxury.

I don't know if this already exists or not, but it would be great if there were some kind of online library where screenwriters could upload their scripts for the world to see and potentially buy. I don't doubt that there are some truly gifted people out there who might be sitting on screenplays that could go down in history as classics if they ever made it on to the big screen.

Unfortunately, talent isn't enough and never really has been. It's often a case of who you know or being in the right place at the right time. It's difficult to get noticed when no one knows who you are!

As nice as that sounds, it would be a nightmare. Published books end up pirated (believe me, I know from experience. I've found pirated copies in at least six languages.)--can you imagine how much easier it would be if the unpublished info was right there online, without the backing of a pub house/producer/studio/whatever behind it?

 

[Flat Matt]

As nice as that sounds, it would be a nightmare. Published books end up pirated (believe me, I know from experience. I've found pirated copies in at least six languages.)--can you imagine how much easier it would be if the unpublished info was right there online, without the backing of a pub house/producer/studio/whatever behind it?

I agree. I think I was just being a bit of an idealist.

 

[50's Kid]

Whose fantasy? White middle class males. There wasn't much for women and minorities.

As I said, there were problems, and those have been More than addressed (my opinion, of course, your mileage my vary). However, it seems that, in order to assure ourselves that society has corrected [some of] those inequalities, we have thrown out too much, morally and culturally speaking (again, my opinion, but it's not nice to fool mother nature, and she will always win).
Personally, I have participated in the addressing and correction of these things, and, professionally, my characters include strong women and minorities, and my stories address the struggle for each person to achieve happiness. I was raised by an essentially single mother, in very harsh circumstances, so I understand hard times, including unrestrained and often violent bigotry.
We can all respect each other, and get along. Right now, there is so much negatively, and downright anger, between men and women, and between "white males" (I am half-Italian, and may have some Native American heritage, so I am not sure where I fit in that description) and other people, that we spend a lot of time talking past each other. We all need to relax and realize that we are all different (especially when it comes to the naturally different needs of men and women, and how they interact), while being inherently equal.
Tonight, before you fall asleep, reflect and be thankful that you do not live in a place, or a culture, where women are Really oppressed and brutalized.
Well, time to get ready for my day job, which is actually working on the midnight or..."Graveyard" shift.

 

[50's Kid]

It was a man's world then, but they were the breadwinners, and money talks. Societal "equality" has evolved due to opportunity created by affluence, which was created via hard work, so that women and minorities could make some demands. This evolution has been a good thing, except to the extent that still certain aspects of society are mistrusted - this time white males. Bias is inescapable human nature. The pendulum simply swings.

I remember TV commercials; if they included a female, she was always portrayed in the classic role of the day: housewife, and then chronically as silly or even stupid, while the male always had it together, was wise, had the answers. Forget ever seeing anyone of color, or any other minority segment of society represented in a commercial. I noticed this and resented it, being raised not to be prejudiced or unfairly biased. Nowadays, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a TV showing a commercial depicting a white male as silly or stupid.

I agree. The "Father Knows Best" imagery has been replaced by that of Maude's bumbling and ineffective husband, as representing all males. No self-respecting guy would put up with her kind of behavior and attitude. They would quickly exit that kind of abusive "relationship".

 

[skimom2]

I agree. I think I was just being a bit of an idealist.

Digital content is a freaking nightmare. No control, pirated wherever, and if you're not a 'name' author, it's bloody hard to get pirated copies taken down. They just weigh anchor and open up their shabby little storefronts somewhere else on the internet. There's a real feeling amongst some people on the net that intellectual property isn't real property. I've just gone the rounds (well, my publisher did, anyway) with two different operations, and somehow I'm the bad guy because, jeez, I'd like to make a little (VERY little) money for years of work.

LOL--Do I sound bitter much? Ridiculous (Taking deep breaths now ;D)

 

[Dana Jean]

As I said, there were problems, and those have been More than addressed (my opinion, of course, your mileage my vary). However, it seems that, in order to assure ourselves that society has corrected [some of] those inequalities, we have thrown out too much, morally and culturally speaking (again, my opinion, but it's not nice to fool mother nature, and she will always win).
Personally, I have participated in the addressing and correction of these things, and, professionally, my characters include strong women and minorities, and my stories address the struggle for each person to achieve happiness. I was raised by an essentially single mother, in very harsh circumstances, so I understand hard times, including unrestrained and often violent bigotry.
We can all respect each other, and get along. Right now, there is so much negatively, and downright anger, between men and women, and between "white males" (I am half-Italian, and may have some Native American heritage, so I am not sure where I fit in that description) and other people, that we spend a lot of time talking past each other. We all need to relax and realize that we are all different (especially when it comes to the naturally different needs of men and women, and how they interact), while being inherently equal.
Tonight, before you fall asleep, reflect and be thankful that you do not live in a place, or a culture, where women are Really oppressed and brutalized.
Well, time to get ready for my day job, which is actually working on the midnight or..."Graveyard" shift.

Oh absolutely I am thankful. I wasn't condemning what you said, just making an observation. I do agree though that we have thrown out the best of that time. Because there were some great qualities and ideals we should have hung onto.

 

[50's Kid]

I agree. I think I was just being a bit of an idealist.

I had thought of putting all the scripts on a blog site, for exposure to potential legitimate buyers, but also worried that someone would just appropriate them. Even though they are copyrighted in my name, it would be easy for an unscrupulous studio to assign a writer to take the basic premise and do a whole new script, borrowing as much as they thought they could get away with. So, I would even be nervous about putting the tag line/elevator pitch on-line, or a synopsis. I looked into self-publishing, but would have to rewrite everything in a novel format, although I considered just publishing it in screenplay format, since the target audience would be studios. I do wish that self-publishing weren't so expensive. The last time I checked, the cost per book (perfect-bound style, per page count) was 2-4 times that of the comparable large-run retail price, and I would not even get a very large percentage of that. I would have expected the price to come down, with electronic publishing methods, but maybe the initial setup cost is still high, and can't be spread out over smaller limited runs of a self-published book. It would all be about exposure, anyway, and I am still tempted to re-do one or more of the stories as a novel. That was how the first one started, until a fellow writer suggested doing them in a screenplay format, after I floundered around for a while.

 

[50's Kid]

Digital content is a freaking nightmare. No control, pirated wherever, and if you're not a 'name' author, it's bloody hard to get pirated copies taken down. They just weigh anchor and open up their shabby little storefronts somewhere else on the internet. There's a real feeling amongst some people on the net that intellectual property isn't real property. I've just gone the rounds (well, my publisher did, anyway) with two different operations, and somehow I'm the bad guy because, jeez, I'd like to make a little (VERY little) money for years of work.

LOL--Do I sound bitter much? Ridiculous (Taking deep breaths now ;D)

I have always been skeptical of e-books, because once the master copy is out there, an unlimited number of copies are easily "produced", where it at least takes some capital investment and effort (and risk) to pirate paper copies, reducing the incentive somewhat.
Reminds me of the supposed motto of China: One country, one disc...
I have noticed that "everything should be open-source" attitude among people. I think they either place no value on their own creations, or they have never struggled and created anything, and thus have no concept of the time and effort involved. It takes me between 6 months to 2 years for each script, although my currently unfinished one (the 4th in the 5 movie series) is taking a whole lot longer. The Christine sequel only took 8 weeks, but I must have been thinking about it for a long time, without realizing it. That doesn't mean I will just give it away, though, because it takes a lifetime of experiences, backed up with endless hours of research, to pour into a work of art and make it grow from nothing but an idea.
I wish I could bypass the agent system altogether, and perhaps set a precedent for others to do so. I think that agencies should hire more people and read more submissions. In the long run, even if only a tiny percentage of those additional submissions are money-makers, those should more than pay for the additional hires. I believe it is a lack of willingness to take a chance, and the movie industry is stagnating because of it.

 

[50's Kid]

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for the warm welcomes and good advice. I have decided to novelize one of my scripts, after I finish the one I am currently working on, and self-publish it in a printed paperback form. This story, which is unrelated to the 5-movie series, and is not the Christine prequel/sequel, is set in Detroit, and should find some acceptance locally. I wrote it with Kid Rock in mind as the main character, and sent query letters to both his agent and manager. No response from either, but the system is what it is, at least for now. I don't expect to make any money doing this, and will probably lose money (unless some major publisher picks up the book rights), but it is purely for exposure.
My goal is to have this story self-published by next January 1st. Hopefully, I will not have to wait another 14 years for results.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...cool beans!...best of the best of luck on that....

 

[Flat Matt]

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for the warm welcomes and good advice. I have decided to novelize one of my scripts, after I finish the one I am currently working on, and self-publish it in a printed paperback form. This story, which is unrelated to the 5-movie series, and is not the Christine prequel/sequel, is set in Detroit, and should find some acceptance locally. I wrote it with Kid Rock in mind as the main character, and sent query letters to both his agent and manager. No response from either, but the system is what it is, at least for now. I don't expect to make any money doing this, and will probably lose money (unless some major publisher picks up the book rights), but it is purely for exposure.
My goal is to have this story self-published by next January 1st. Hopefully, I will not have to wait another 14 years for results.

I'm going to be self-publishing my novel when it's completed. It will start life as an e book and, hopefully, be available in print soon after.

Publishing an e book is very inexpensive and, let's face it, e books are a growing trend. You just need to make sure the formatting is done properly and then put your heart and soul into marketing it. Plenty of people have been successful with self-publishing.

 

[Mr Nobody]

Digital content is a freaking nightmare. No control, pirated wherever, and if you're not a 'name' author, it's bloody hard to get pirated copies taken down. They just weigh anchor and open up their shabby little storefronts somewhere else on the internet. There's a real feeling amongst some people on the net that intellectual property isn't real property. I've just gone the rounds (well, my publisher did, anyway) with two different operations, and somehow I'm the bad guy because, jeez, I'd like to make a little (VERY little) money for years of work.

LOL--Do I sound bitter much? Ridiculous (Taking deep breaths now ;D)

Situations like that, and on discussion boards, etc, whenever I mention earning a little money and someone says something like 'Diddums. You'll have to get a crap job like the rest of us have', I respond with a comment along the lines of 'You're right, I will. I'll have yours. Enjoy poverty'.
What's worse is when people start arguing that all 'knowledge' should be free, and use that to justify piracy of fiction. There, I usually say something like 'I agree, knowledge should be free...but a made up story isn't knowledge'. Most people get it, but there are always those who say BS like 'Then it has no value'. I'd weep for those people if I didn't despise them so much. (There's also something odd about arguing that knowledge should be free, but then saying that it is valuable. It might just be me, but surely if something has value there's a price that can be levied...right? It doesn't necesssarily need to be cash.)
Then there are the 'You shouldn't do it for money, but for art' mob. I tell them I'm definitely not in it for the money - if I wanted easy money, I have certain other, very marketable, skills that'd see me live a luxurious (and probably quite short) life - and ask what they do. If they work in healthcare or the charitable sector, I respond with 'Well, you're doing good work. But you know, helping those in need is surely its own reward. You should do it for free and allow that money to be spent helping more people'. The number of folks who come back with 'But I've got eat and there are bills to pay!' is astonishing. Telling them to do something more lucrative is met with 'But I love my work and should be paid for it!', and they still don't see that it's just the same for you.
But I guess the absolute worst kind of encounter is the one where some ignoramus goes 'We're sick of subsidizing your millionaire lifestyle. So what if you have to sell the mansion?' etc, as if I suddenly became obscenely wealthy when I first sat down to write. Inevitably, at some point in the discussion JK Rowling and Stephen King will be brought up, and pointing out that these are the names that spring to mind most readily because they are notable exceptions rather than the rule never seems to gain much ground. It annoys me, too, how they use 'we' to mean readers and presume to speak for the group without once considering that I'm a reader too! (As most authors/writers are.)
It really all boils down to a couple of things. What they're really saying is 'I'm as tight as a duck's backside' and 'I'm entitled. You're not'.

 

[Mr Nobody]

Plenty of people have been successful with self-publishing.

There are many more who haven't, but...tbh at this point you have at least as much chance of successfully self-pubbing as you do of getting a sniff of interest out of an agent (let alone a publishing house) unless you're a celebrity and/or person of infamy, so go for it, and good luck.

 

[Mr Nobody]

Then there are the 'You shouldn't do it for money, but for art' mob.

...there is.
Is, not are.
Bloody hell, boy.

 

[Flat Matt]

There are many more who haven't, but...tbh at this point you have at least as much chance of successfully self-pubbing as you do of getting a sniff of interest out of an agent (let alone a publishing house) unless you're a celebrity and/or person of infamy, so go for it, and good luck.

My thoughts exactly.

I have absolutely nothing to lose by self-publishing and, frankly, I'd rather not waste my time with traditional publishers and agents. Self-publishing is very liberating. It's nice to see so many writers turning the tables and rejecting publishers. They've had it all their own way for far too long.

 

[skimom2]

My thoughts exactly.

I have absolutely nothing to lose by self-publishing and, frankly, I'd rather not waste my time with traditional publishers and agents. Self-publishing is very liberating. It's nice to see so many writers turning the tables and rejecting publishers. They've had it all their own way for far too long.

Please, please, please, Matt… if you do self-pub, please spring for a good editor (and a pro-level cover wouldn't hurt either). The biggest mistake I've seen in indie authors is believing the utter horseshite that the author can 'do it all' and produce a decent book for next to nothing. I hate the stupid author sites that publish that tripe, because it's just not true. And don't fall into the trap of the endless free or $.99 books. That 's fine for a promotional time (maybe-not sold on that tactic myself), but keeping your prices that low pretty much guarantees that no one will take you seriously when and if you ever decide that you want to charge anything close to a fair portion of what the book took to produce, never mind make a profit. You might also want to look into some indie publishers that take unagented submissions. There are small houses that do that, and some (like Crooked Cat, for example) are turning out nice books with decent editing and at least a pittance tossed toward marketing. Watch the biggies, too--Tor was accepting unagented manuscripts for a while last year, and some others occasionally do that, as well.

 

[Flat Matt]

Please, please, please, Matt… if you do self-pub, please spring for a good editor (and a pro-level cover wouldn't hurt either). The biggest mistake I've seen in indie authors is believing the utter horseshite that the author can 'do it all' and produce a decent book for next to nothing. I hate the stupid author sites that publish that tripe, because it's just not true. And don't fall into the trap of the endless free or $.99 books. That 's fine for a promotional time (maybe-not sold on that tactic myself), but keeping your prices that low pretty much guarantees that no one will take you seriously when and if you ever decide that you want to charge anything close to a fair portion of what the book took to produce, never mind make a profit. You might also want to look into some indie publishers that take unagented submissions. There are small houses that do that, and some (like Crooked Cat, for example) are turning out nice books with decent editing and at least a pittance tossed toward marketing. Watch the biggies, too--Tor was accepting unagented manuscripts for a while last year, and some others occasionally do that, as well.

I'm happy to say that I have already taken everything you've said into account. I researched self-publishing for months before I began writing my novel and what you have said is absolutely bang on the money. Anyone who knows anything about this subject says exactly the same things.

I'm having the formatting done by a professional and I will also have the book edited before it goes anywhere near Amazon and Smashwords etc. I'm going to try doing the cover art myself, as I'm not too bad with that side of things and the cover I have in mind is within my capability. You're dead right about the price as well. I'm not going to be knocking it out for $0.99 or free. It will be under $3 though.

Most importantly, if I don't think the finished book is good enough, it won't be published at all and I'll move on to the next one. It's my first book and it represents me as a writer. You only get one chance to make a good first impression.