The Contraception Healthcare Debate - An Actual Study with Evidence!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by hossenpepper, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    Here is an article on the study:
    Does free birth control REALLY lead to promiscuity? Experts find no link | Mail Online

    And here is the actual study report:

    Change in Sexual Behavior With Provision of No-Cost Contrace... : Obstetrics & Gynecology


    A couple of lines from the news article stuck out to me.
    This was from the author of the study. This study was in response to GOP purported assumptions that more birth control = more sex and deviance. This statement should trouble every person on Earth. Whose effing business is it how much sex you're having? That she felt she needed to say this reveals how ridiculous this whole debate is and the how ridiculous the people are who are forcing us to have it.

    And this quote proves it:
    LMAO... If anyone ever again questions why I just dismiss and clown the GOP grasp of healthcare and what the delivery of it is REALLY like, please come back and read this. There is not one doctor alive that wouldn't tell a patient that BC pills are not 100%. The literature and inserts all say it's not 100%. No one is selling BC pills to women as an absolute cure for pregnancy. Further more, WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more women came to the various offices I worked at during my nursing career seeking BC for hormone regulation, not just to prevent pregnancy.

    This statement shows that in regards to this people on the right in LEADERSHIP positions base their ideals on anecdotes and urban legend. Maybe in the 1960's when the pill first came out there was a misconception (no pun intended) about the efficacy of these in regards to pregnancy, but 50 years of public information and women still getting pregnant even while on the pill has let the women of this world understand it's not.

    Even my teenage daugthers know this isn't true. Given their greater abundance of real knowledge not based on PERSONAL RELIGIOUS DOGMA, my daughters are more qualified to lead this group than the joker who said this. And I won't even let them drive my cars....
  2. kingricefan
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    kingricefan All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.

    Ya just gotta love the GOP, right? They all seem to have put their Harvard and Yale educations to work.......:lol:
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  3. DiO'Bolic
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    DiO'Bolic Mr. Man

    I actually agree with you Hoss. But what position in the GOP does Arina Grossu hold? Or which people on the right in LEADERSHIP positions base their ideals on anecdotes and urban legends? Mabe a few nut cases in the party do, which are not isolated just to the GOP, but I woudn't necessarily call them "leaders," regardless what the media says.

    (Remember Congressman Hank Johnson (D-GA) who expressed fears during a hearing in 2010 that the island of Guam could capsize if too many military personnel were stationed there?)
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  4. kingricefan
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    kingricefan All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::clap::clap::clap:
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  5. Moderator
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    Moderator Ms. Mod Administrator

  6. skimom2
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    skimom2 Just moseyin' through...

    I agree with you that the gov't has no business in anyone's bedroom. Gotta disagree with your statement that everyone knows how BC works, though. I worked in a pregnancy care center (Not THE Pregnancy Care Center--no religious basis in the one I worked for) for years, and was continually shocked by how little information/misinformation many women are working from. We worked with mainly low-income women, and almost none of them knew how the pill/other forms of BC work (aside from condoms, and many didn't even know common sense rules for those, either). They don't read package directions, and doctors are so rushed that many don't even explain how to take the pill and when it needs a back up (i.e., first month, if you ever miss a pill, antibiotics, etc). These were, in the main, not kids. They were grown women. Scary.
  7. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    Funny, but fail to see what that has to do with this issue... I said "ON THIS ISSUE" because I knew the standard right wing reply is to take it to another ballfield and play badminton with the football. Don't forget, I am a progressive thinker, the anecdotes and assumptions that convince right wingers don't work on me. Trying to equate Martians with a fungo is logical fallacy at best.

    The council she leads is a right wing supported think tank, with deep ties to the Southern Baptist Conference and other religious organizations. She sets policy for this group which has a radio show and spends lots of money supporting other CPACs and all these other GOP movements related to this subject.

    No offense, Dio, but she isn't some nuthatch like us debating on a board where only a specific audience would ever see. She was considered important enough that USA Today sought her out for response. I would say that squarely puts her in a leadership position on the right. Now if you'd like to apply this same logic, then please do not ever bring up anyone like Rachel Maddow or other left leaner with a public voice as being representative of the left's views. Otherwise, accept this woman is in a position of leadership and is using some crap someone told her at church and coupled it with what she observed as her drunk friend's judgment at a Notre Dame kegger back in college to determine a "policy" and response.
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  8. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    I didn't say it NEVER happens. But no way is that a large percentage or a majority. Women today are by and large pretty knowledgeable of the pill. And perhaps that is a point. Those careful enough to know, respect its limitations and are probably more likely to have a lucid approach to the whole subject anyway. Those who don't are problematic in any case. Let's also not forget that the one main group in the US that doesn't use BC are Catholics. Ironically, the leader of the council who responded is a Catholic school and Notre Dame grad.

    But here's the rub.... IF lack of education IS really a problem, that is mostly the right's fault!!!!!!! They are the ones who battle against sex ed in schools, and sex ed in general. If that message of the limitations has been stifled, it's not because supporters aren't getting it out, it's because the money needed to mass market has been stifled by this constant debate.

    But yes, I agree, there are a lot of stupid people in the world.
  9. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    Dude, another Southern Democrat? You do know they just let a few get through that are really paid actors to try to make the left look dumb, don't you? Otherwise, people might start to think about their conservative platforms more thoroughly and realize how crazy it all is...
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  10. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    BTW, not to belabor you, but regardless of whether I have proof of how silly that statement is, or if it is indeed true en masse, the study shows it doesn't matter. So her point means nothing anyway. But the real point is she has no quantified study that shows she is correct. Even if she did, again, this study shows that doesn't have any effect on the outcomes.
  11. DiO'Bolic
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    DiO'Bolic Mr. Man

    Best conspiracy theory I heard in months.
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  12. kingricefan
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    kingricefan All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.

    Maybe they could get Matt McC. to play a part, he did just win Best Actor, ya know.....:highly_amused:
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  13. skimom2
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    skimom2 Just moseyin' through...

    Education is definitely an issue. I do think you'd be surprised at the numbers of otherwise well-educated women who are ignorant of how their own bodies work and their own responsibility when it comes to fertility. It really is shocking. The responsibility can't be shoved onto one political party--it's a health/parenting/growing up issue, IMHO.

    Blaming it on a religion is specious, as well. Despite any teaching to the contrary, Catholics are just as likely as any other religion (or non religion) to use birth control. Southern Baptists have no proscription against BC. The issue is squeamishness about our bodies and sex, and that's across the board--no religion card to be played.

    My thought is this: if you're gonna give BC out free, you have some responsibility to teach people the correct way to use whatever method they choose to use. And there's the rub: 'free' BC usually means gov't pays (nothing is free), so you're inviting the gov't into your bedroom by default, or requiring it to be even more inefficient than its norm. KWIM?

    I'm not coming down on the side of any 'party' (I distrust them both)--my argument is that it's an issue of personal responsibility, and neither 'side' shows much interest in teaching that.
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  14. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    Well then according to your own words, education is the ONLY issue. Why it's not happening IS the debate isn't it? Did the left vote to defund Planned Parenthood? You are familiar with them and that they are the main supplier of BC and reproductive education, right? Who tries to stifle them? I know you're saying this isn't a party thing, but sorry, you're just wrong about that. The right goes to GREAT lengths to keep people in the dark on this stuff and stifle sex ed.

    Free BC= Govt in your bedroom? LOL those numbers of usage are available to the government regardless. The FDA tracks this stuff and they know who and how much is being prescribed already, so that really smacks of conspiracy theory propaganda to me.

    I don't think this was anything to do with suggesting we give out free BC, it was just saying they gave it away. My guess is to remove the factor of money to obtain the pills. And this is another point. BC is supposed to be COVERED by PPACA, not free. You pay for it via premiums. Like any commodity, if more people use it, there is a sweet spot on the demand arc that drives the costs to produce.

    You say religion isn't a factor here....UMMMMMM that is EXACTLY what they were responding to in the study... religious dogma on this. It WAS the ACL that threw the biggest fit about this being included in the new plans under PPACA. This study sought to find out if they had a valid argument in that. They don't. Yet this lady just spouts more of the religious tripe that spurred the study in the first place... WHEN IT WAS PROVED WRONG!

    Baptists aren't opposed to BC at all, so not sure where you got that. The only mainstream sect of Christianity that openly forbids BC is the Catholic Church, isn't it?

    I also just don't buy it about women not knowing BC isn't 100% effective. I worked in healthcare a long time and was around it my whole life before I did. The vast majority of women know its effectiveness, effects and, again, use them for hormone regulation, not just BC.

    But given your feelings, I assume you'll vote to fund Planned Parenthood and better sex ed for youth. Reasons don't matter, the message does, right?
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  15. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    I thought it was pretty funny anyway...
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  16. hossenpepper
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    hossenpepper Keeper of Octopus Volcano

    Nah, it can't be someone attractive. It doesn't make the Ds look bad enough... :p
  17. DiO'Bolic
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    DiO'Bolic Mr. Man

    Yeah, I got a real chuckle out of that also, but sadly I bet a lot of people would actually believe you.
  18. GNTLGNT
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    GNTLGNT Idiot in Situ and Unholy Devourer of Cookies

    ....BC?....yeah I'm cool with that...

    [​IMG]
  19. jchanic
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    jchanic Well-Known Member

    I think one of the major reasons for opposition to a "free" birth control mandate is the fact that it really isn't free--SOMEONE has to be paying for it and under this mandate it's the taxpayer. The companies don't give this stuff away. Many people (and I have to say, I'm one of them) also object on religious grounds. These people object to having to pay for something that is against their principles. And before you all start saying that you object to war, etc. on principle, there IS religious freedom in this country guaranteed by the constitution.

    John
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  20. Sundrop
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    Sundrop the Great and Wonderful

    In a way, the companies do give away birth control pills.....Back when I was using it, my doctor always gave me enough samples for the entire year.
    The drug companies gave him enough that he was able to pass it along to patients who had the same prescription. I never paid for birth control the entire time I was using it.
    Obviously, the companies can't give it away to everyone.....but they do give away a lot

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