The Reborn

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by Dana Jean, May 2, 2014.

  1. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    This is a book I'm reading by a Brett J. Talley. I find the premise very interesting and so far, he's doing a really good job telling the story.

    The year is 2023. Time magazine has just said that Reincarnation is a scientific fact. So, just go with that premise. It is a fact in this story.

    So, the jist of the plot is, all pregnant women must undergo prenatal testing to see if their child is a reincarnated criminal.

    Paraphrasing here, every child was divided into three categories:

    The Clear. Those were babies whose genetic markers did not match any criminal in the growing database.

    The Marked. These were babies who carried a marked gene that in a past life had committed crimes, and although serious, "were not generally considered worthy of death." They would be monitored and if they led a crime-free life, their DNA profile would be marked clear.

    Then there were the Reborn. these were babies who in a past life had been murderers, rapists or worse, making them unworthy of life and unlawful to give birth to them.

    So, you see where this is going and why I put it in Hot Topics. These criminal babies were terminated. Some women would run and hide, but they had a special police force that would track them down and terminate the pregnancy which is done with a very futuristic type gun that doesn't hurt the mother, but scrambles the babies brains and kills it.

    What are your thoughts? I'm just barely into this story, so not sure how he deals with an argument that surely must be in this story somewhere. What about nature vs. nurture. Environment? If you KNEW you were giving birth to Adolph Hitler let's say, would you have him terminated, or would you run and hope your loving care would change him?

    Edited to add: If you fathered a criminal child, a reincarnated bad bad person, would you want it terminated?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  2. Neesy

    Neesy #1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side

    I thought we were all born innocent? So if they find out your baby is the reincarnation of someone good like Mahatma Ghandi or Mother Teresa for example, then does your baby get special treatment as well?

    He is automatically assuming that genetics is what makes people evil, not considering the "nature vs. nurture" theory as you mentioned.

    If I was pregnant and someone wanted to terminate that pregnancy against my will, sure I would run.

    If I was pregnant and someone tried to stop me from terminating my pregnancy against my will, again I would run (if that makes sense?) - [this of course, is a whole 'nother topic so let's not go there!]
    Wow - what a disturbing concept for a book :hitch:
     
  3. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    It's very good. His writing is very good in this story.
     
  4. Neesy

    Neesy #1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side

    I will have to see if it is available at my library - is it a new book?
     
  5. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    It's from Journalstone -- Part of their doubledown series. Half the book is this story, the other half (you turn the book upside down) is a story called Biters by a Harry Shannon. That story was okay. I'm not sure if it is out yet or not, I got this as an Early Reviewer at LibraryThing. It's definitely a small press book that might not be in a library. At least I know my city library would never get it unless I put in a request for them to add it.
     
  6. Spideyman

    Spideyman Uber Member

  7. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

  8. Grandpa

    Grandpa Well-Known Member

    How about The Boys From Brazil? Where Nazi fugitives have produced Hitler cloned embryos and planted them in families that are (unknowingly, I think) raising little Hitlers. The bad guys are monitoring the families to manipulate them into being as Hitler-family-like as possible. And in fact, with the exception of one allusion to make the ending interesting, nothing comes out of them. Without the particular psychosocial environment of the original one, they're taking different paths than he did.

    That's how I view it. It's not just genetics. What we are is a combination of nature, nurture, environment, our choices, and good and bad luck.

    So no, if I found out that my in utero child had genetic markers that would put them at higher risk for violent or disturbing behavior, I wouldn't terminate them. I'd work doubly hard to ensure that those behaviors were not adopted by them.

    If the book is saying that genes can jump around different places, ignoring family lines but carrying genetic code of some other nonrelated human, then it might as well as what I'd do if I encountered a fairy. It might be interesting to think about, but it's not grounded in reality.
     
  9. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    No, it's not reality. This is a fiction book where Reincarnation has been scientifically proven. I say just to go with that premise. So, it's not just markers for disturbing behavior. IT IS Hitler. IT IS John Wayne Gacy. IT IS Albert Fish. IT IS Andrei Chikatilo. and on and on and on.

    This is a futuristic, fiction book. Look at it from that standpoint. If your wife was carrying John Wayne Gacy, would you want her to give birth? You might name him something different, but it is HIM because he is reincarnated.

    Personally, I would like to think my loving influence would totally make these criminals different. I'm all for nurture, but, sometimes, people are just born bad. I don't like thinking that, but I do believe sometimes it's true.
     
  10. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    I read this book and found it very chilling. Weren't they just hoping one of these boys would be like Hitler? It's been so long. I just remember I was very disappointed with the movie. It didn't live up to the very interesting book.
     
  11. HollyGolightly

    HollyGolightly Well-Known Member

    Oh wow. Hot topic for certain. It makes sense, you know? But then..... you know? Right - does your genetic code predetermine everything you are - or was it partly because of something that happened to you somewhere along the line? I might have to read this. It'll probably trouble me, won't it?
     
  12. Grandpa

    Grandpa Well-Known Member

    Sure, and that's why reminded me of The Boys From Brazil. I'm not much on predestination. I'd say without the same psychosocial/environmental factors in place, the childrearing results will be different. I'm with you there.
     
  13. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    I'm not even halfway in this book, but I found the idea very interesting and he's doing a terrific job in pulling me into this world. I'm going along for the ride to see where it goes. He's got me. Hopefully he continues to hold me. I'll let you know. It's very short, 148 pages -- so a novella, yes?
     
  14. Grandpa

    Grandpa Well-Known Member

    Exactly so. And you're right. The movie didn't live up, not even with Gregory Peck, Lawrence Olivier, and James Mason.
     
  15. Dana Jean

    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    I know! Such a great list of actors, and it didn't even come close to the suspense and terror of the plot.
     
  16. blunthead

    blunthead Well-Known Member

    I think Ira Levin 's point in Boys from Brazil was to suggest that the Nazi doctrine that certain desirable human traits, imaginary or not, can be bred and cultivated is scientifically false; that Nazi thinking was restricted via prejudice into a highly limited, highly unrealistic type. Deej's book sounds very interesting. I'll be surprised if a bad guy doesn't emerge who had been born "Clear", while a "Reborn" doesn't turn out a hero.
     
  17. Lord Tyrion

    Lord Tyrion Well-Known Member

    There are a lot of unanswered questions to this premise. Are they assuming being a criminal is completely genetic? Do they know that past criminals will commit crime every time they are reincarnated? If they are killed at birth wouldn't they be born again anyways since reincarnation is real?

    I don't think behavior is completely genetic, I think environment plays a huge role in a person's development. I'd also have a problem with government having this much power to enforce these laws, though it would be interesting to see how reincarnation would be interpreted in screening pregnancies.
     
    Neesy, Dana Jean, blunthead and 2 others like this.
  18. VultureLvr45

    VultureLvr45 Well-Known Member

    Need to think about this concept as reincarnation is a potential truth in my world.

    Yes, even if I was carrying Fish, or Hitler, or Gacy, I would still have the baby.

    No, I would not murder or abort. No, I would not allow the government to dictate or to permit them to fry its brains.

    Just because he or she committed attrocities in the last lifetime does Not mean they will kill again.

    All are born innocent, even those with past lives.

    My understanding of reincarnation is as limited, but if you are bad in one lifetime, you are 'demoted' to a 'lesser' being. So if you were 'a Hitler' in the past life time, perhaps you are born a poop eating fish this time.
     
  19. VultureLvr45

    VultureLvr45 Well-Known Member

    Although this will sound nuts, if I had a kid who turned out to kill millions (such as Hitler) or many (Gacy or Fish), I would have to be the one to administer the punishment. Because I f'*ked up somehow. As a parent, it is my responsibility to make sure the kid I raise turns out a contributing member of society. Sorry, this is my true gut feeling.
     
  20. no bounce no play

    no bounce no play I am Borg

    Wow :eek: what an interesting premise for a story! I will for sure order it :) if I knew my child was one of the reborn, I would secretly give birth and give the kid a chance. I'd watch him like a hawk though.

    side note: I read Search for Bridey Murphy a long long time ago before the author admitted it was a hoax... I was po'd lol
     

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