The war on religion

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Shasta, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. Shasta
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    Shasta On his shell he holds the earth.

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  2. skimom2
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    skimom2 Just moseyin' through...

    Ridiculous. Americans are absolutely ridiculous when it comes to religion. IMHO, it's a deeply personal matter, and no one else's choice to believe or disbelieve has anything to do with me, nor is my choice anyone else's issue.
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  3. Shasta
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    Shasta On his shell he holds the earth.

    I literally have no idea what you are talking about. What's ridiculous?
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  4. VampireLily
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    VampireLily Vampire Goddess & General P.I.T.A

    i typed....
    i erased....
    i typed .....
    i erased again.

    i'm gonna leave it at that.
  5. Moderator
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    Moderator Ms. Mod Administrator

    I second(ed) that deletion. :)
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  6. Dana Jean
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    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    I took it she meant that the whole issue is ridiculous and that religion is a personal and private thing and shouldn't be on the seal.

    Maybe not? Meaning lost in translation.
  7. dsurrett
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    dsurrett Well-Known Member

    Our country is rooted in Christianity. Even the founding fathers who weren't evangelical Christians still believed in God, the Bible, and prayer. For every example of an early leader being agnostic, you find dozens of examples of someone quoting the Bible or mentioning God or prayer. Franklin and Jefferson are examples of early leaders who weren't Bible thumpers by today's standards but spoke and wrote about dependence on God.
    Today it seems like you can't criticize any belief system EXCEPT traditional Christianity.
    Some here will disagree, and that's okay. You don't have to believe like I do, I just ask to be able to express my opinions and beliefs. Thankfully I can do that in these forums.
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  8. skimom2
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    skimom2 Just moseyin' through...

    Sorry, Shasta--I didn't intend to be mysterious, and I'm not ignoring you (Trying to get a bit of writing in this AM & haven't been online) :) I guess I mean two things: first, that anyone concerns themselves with anyone else's religious (or non-religious) walk through life is a damn shame. Second, it's ridiculous that in a civil society a government would purposely try to tie the secular and religious together in that way. As we are not, nor have we ever been, a theocracy, forcing symbolism on those who do not believe is divisive as hell. Anyone can believe anything they like, but they do not have the right to assume that anyone else feels the same. I am a religious person, privately, but I value the secular nature of our government. It was constructed that way for very specific reasons, and should remain so.
  9. Neesy
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    Neesy #1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side

    [​IMG]

    I am Canadian but I just wonder - which God are they talking about here?
  10. Shasta
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    Shasta On his shell he holds the earth.

    I'm still confused! I swear, I'm not being obtuse.

    Did you read the article?

    I think we should absolutely have a separation of church and state. But I live in a state that was basically founded by missions. I don't think if historically a mission had a cross that it should be left off the state seal. I also don't think having it on there forces anyone to be subjected to religion.
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  11. Dana Jean
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    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    Having a cross on it or not on it would not affect me one bit personally. But, it's the state seal and it represents all people of all beliefs or nonbeliefs. Even though it's a historical symbol as their reasoning, it's still a touchy subject and some people live to be offended.
  12. Shasta
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    Shasta On his shell he holds the earth.

    Of course. That's why it was in question.

    My point is simply that I keep hearing on this here board about the war on religion and that everything even remotely religious is being banished. Well, it's apparently not.
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  13. ghost19
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    ghost19 .....Damn Zombies.....

    There's an interesting religious tift going on over in Oklahoma City, OK I've been following for a couple of weeks, I can't remember the exact place but in front of some Oklahoma City Government building they have a statue displaying the ten commandments. The local satanic church in OK City is trying to have a satanic statue placed beside the ten commandments statue claiming their statue has as much right to be placed there as the other. The OK government has so far denied the request citing that the ten commandments statue is there for "historical significance" not for its religious statement and that the satanic statute has no historic significance in the history of Oklahoma. I can see this one going to court after court after court. I'm mostly interested because a good friend of mine is a detective in the OK City PD and is in a squad of the detective division that liaisons with several alternative churches in OK City. He has to go several of these churches to make sure no laws are being broken as far as animal sacrifices, etc. He's got some awesome stories. Going to vampire weddings, all kinds of cool stuff.
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  14. Shasta
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    Shasta On his shell he holds the earth.

    Let us know, ghost19. I'm interested to see what happens.
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  15. ghost19
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    ghost19 .....Damn Zombies.....

    I was going to post a link to the info Shasta, but all the news links are so damn ad-ridden....if you google "Oklahoma City Satanists" you can find several links. I'm hoping to talk with my contact over there in next few weeks, if nothing else, just to give him a lot of grief over it...lol
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  16. Dana Jean
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    Dana Jean Beta Tester/Moderator Moderator

    Ooo, tell us stories.
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  17. Jordan
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    Jordan Webmaster-at-Large Administrator Moderator

    Most of the founding fathers were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. Of the key founding fathers (John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, George Washington) only John Jay was an orthodox Christian.

    In a related note, "God" wasn't added to the pledge of allegiance until 1954. "God" wasn't added to currency until 1956.
  18. GNTLGNT
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    GNTLGNT Idiot in Situ and Unholy Devourer of Cookies


    ...I read about and laughed at the whole "equal time" thing with the Old Scratch statue...and I found this quote quite comical as well...

    Similar requests for monuments have been made by a Hindu leader in Nevada, an animal rights group and the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


    [​IMG] ...I wanna join...
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  19. DiO'Bolic
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    DiO'Bolic Mr. Man

    (Jordon is unquotable for reply purposes? ;))

    I don’t believe the majority of the founding fathers were Deists. And I don’t believe they needed to be “orthodox” anything in order to have their religious beliefs influence the founding of The USA. The three major foundational documents of the United States of America are the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution of the United States of America. The signers of those three documents (and a few others like John Jay represent what we consider the Founding Fathers). Undoubtedly Christian religious beliefs weighed heavily in the formation of each of those documents, and ignoring the influence of Christianity as our foundation is denying our heritage IMO.

    The religious affiliation of the signers of the Declaration of Independence is as follows:

    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
    Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
    William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
    John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
    William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
    John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
    George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
    John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
    George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
    Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
    Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
    Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
    Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
    Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
    Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
    George Read Delaware Episcopalian
    Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
    Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
    William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
    Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
    Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
    Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
    Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
    Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
    William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
    Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
    John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
    Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
    Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
    Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
    Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
    George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
    Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
    Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
    Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
    James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
    Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
    George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
    Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
    Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
    Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
    John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
    Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
    John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
    William Floyd New York Presbyterian
    Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
    James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
    George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
    Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

    (I’m Agnostic for the record)
  20. VampireLily
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    VampireLily Vampire Goddess & General P.I.T.A

    This is the **** right here that makes my skin crawl. There's never anything positive in the papers about Witchcraft...or Wicca... or alternative religions or beliefs. It's always about some crazy f'ckers who are sacrificing animals or abducting kids. There's animal sacrifices in the bible.... which just goes to prove that newer religions are always adopting things from the older, archaic religions. Do they really think that slitting some poor lambs throat is really going to make their lives more prosperous? And yet people still do this disgusting **** and then claim that they're Pagan or a Satanist... or worse yet a Vampire. I have no clue about Satanism because hey, i don't believe in the dude and quite frankly i think most these people are posers who need to seek out a better process of thought.....but i CAN speak for witches on a whole and they do not support or believe in this crap. Most 'Pagans' fight for animal rights and cherish and honor the planet. But you know what.... people don't realize that because they only ever hear and read about the negative *******s who commit these atrocities and claim it was for 'religious' reasons.

    These jerks don't want to erect a statue of Satan... they're just pissed off because the Ten Commandments is there, that's all.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
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