Themes and Politics

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Kurben

The Fool on the Hill
Apr 12, 2014
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Your opinions on theme have no relevance to the original question of this thread. I'm not commenting on whether a story should have themes. If I were, such comments from me would be irrelevant to the thread.
You are venting opinions. So are others. It is not up to you to say to anyone that their opinions are irrelevant on this thread. It is just rude.
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
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Cambridge, Ohio
Your original comment and question was: "So, I thought King was a fan of the hero myth and distrusted institutionalization. But, he's a Democrat.

Doesn't that create some serious cognitive dissonance?"

By asking the question, perhaps people have assumed (not unfairly so) that you're inviting opinion in response to your musing? Normally free-thought and tangents arise when folks begin to look at an issue. I suppose the members here are quite used to engaging in free-flowing conversation and a couple of the responses have sparked some attitude--on both sides.

Perhaps you could phrase your question in a different way?

Personally, I don't believe it does create cognitive dissonance in the 'man', but perhaps it does show the range of the writer? I think first and foremost, Stephen follows where the story leads and often has little control on a concious level, that's not to say that his personal beliefs don't have an influence, because I'm sure they do... but it has always been about the story for him--and if that might seem to the reader to conjure up theme's that don't appear to spring directly from the man? Well then, all the better as far as he is concerned.
....well done m'lady...thank you....but don't move far from the gong....
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
44,082
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New Zealand
I would genuinely love to have a pleasant discussion. However, I'm forced onto the defensive by comments like

"the rudeness behind the question"

"What a lot of over anaalysing"

"lotta folks just can't help theyselves with the psychoanalytic babble bother...'Oooooo I wonder what's inside bookboy's head, 'cause just maybe I don't much care for what he said?'"

and by attempts to threadjack and change the topic to the merits of themes in stories.

We can't have a pleasant discussion unless everyone makes an effort.
Point taken. :)

However, your original question did seem open to interpretation so for you to tell people that their opinions have no meaning/or implying they have little or no value, essentially you are alienating yourself with a well-established group of people.

BUT! It doesn't have to be this way... :biggrin2:

C'mon people, lets see if we can agree on what the original question was/and meant... and discuss it to death. (It is a SK forum after all...) Let's drop the personal issues and stick to the facts.... *peace*
 

Justin Rocket

Member
May 8, 2015
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...hers are as valid, if not more so than yours....are you this obnoxiously rude to people you've never met in real life as well?....so much for your self-professed "pleasant" discussions, you seem to have developed social amnesia....

Her comments on the merits of themes are a threadjack. Threadjacking is offensive plain and simple.
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
44,082
175,641
New Zealand
Her comments on the merits of themes are a threadjack. Threadjacking is offensive plain and simple.
Perhaps so. But (whether this is unfortunate or fortunate, I'm not sure) they are a part of life (to a degree) on this forum. So, perhaps a little tolerance would go a long way. (It is quite easy to just mentally skip over posts like those if you don't care for them.)
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
62
Cambridge, Ohio
Her comments on the merits of themes are a threadjack. Threadjacking is offensive plain and simple.
...you know nothing of her intentions and you have been offensive, plain & simple since joining....you might try to get to know us before you come off as Judge, Jury and Executioner of a Board that has run quite well without your opinions ....
 

Walter Oobleck

keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going
Mar 6, 2013
11,749
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Best to kill the theme and politics scouts before they settle in...demand their marriages be recognized, start hankering for our women, lusting after our men's buttocks.

But say like Johnny in Desperation...now there's an individual out to make it on his own...and he does, after a fashion, no? Gard, in Tommyknockers, another...and look at the outcome of them both. Taxes. The Ultimate Tax, paid for.

I like talkin theme.


Why! I will fight with you upon this theme, until my eyelids shall no longer williwag!
 

Justin Rocket

Member
May 8, 2015
21
23
55
Personally, I don't believe it does create cognitive dissonance in the 'man', but perhaps it does show the range of the writer? I think first and foremost, Stephen follows where the story leads and often has little control on a concious level, that's not to say that his personal beliefs don't have an influence, because I'm sure they do... but it has always been about the story for him--and if that might seem to the reader to conjure up theme's that don't appear to spring directly from the man? Well then, all the better as far as he is concerned.

All the famous writers, when analyzed across a breadth of their work, reveal their views on life. This has nothing to do with their range as writers. Edgar Allen Poe is a Romanticist whose style and themes are such that a skilled critic could read an unattributed story and identify Poe as the author. Twain, Hemingway, Lovecraft, and all the other greats have a respective distinctive style and themes. A story is as uniquely an author's as is a dream, coached in symbols which have personal meaning and personal value. The more skilled and productive the author is, the more distinctively their own their stories are because they have to dig deeper into their mental mine to find ore of such quality that a professional story can be crafted from it.

So, the only way an author can write at his best and embed (unconsciously, perhaps) two conflicting value systems is if the author has two conflicting value systems which have become part of him - a situation which should cause cognitive dissonance.
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
44,082
175,641
New Zealand
All the famous writers, when analyzed across a breadth of their work, reveal their views on life. This has nothing to do with their range as writers. Edgar Allen Poe is a Romanticist whose style and themes are such that a skilled critic could read an unattributed story and identify Poe as the author. Twain, Hemingway, Lovecraft, and all the other greats have a respective distinctive style and themes. A story is as uniquely an author's as is a dream, coached in symbols which have personal meaning and personal value. The more skilled and productive the author is, the more distinctively their own their stories are because they have to dig deeper into their mental mine to find ore of such quality that a professional story can be crafted from it.

So, the only way an author can write at his best and embed (unconsciously, perhaps) two conflicting value systems is if the author has two conflicting value systems which have become part of him - a situation which should cause cognitive dissonance.
Perhaps it is the Richard Bachman (or worse) George Stark influence? :biggrin2:
I hear what you're saying... but, what is it that you're meaning? (Are you suggesting that Stephen might be a closet Republican? :biggrin2: )
I think it is too difficult to put him into a box, or even a few boxes, Stephen is so well read that I guess influences are bound to wax and wane in their strengths, his work is so vast that there are several themes, not just the ones that you have pointed out--and none of those really accurately describe what his thought processes are, because he is human, just like you and me and I guess ever evolving, like everybody else.
 

Kurben

The Fool on the Hill
Apr 12, 2014
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Would never consider Hemingway one of the greats.....
This kind a reminds me why that critic (forget his name) was so upset when King won that lifetime achievement award or something about 10 years ago. Great speech he held.
Two conflicting value systems? Well, i don't agree with that. King has certainly developed during his long career which is not surprising. But for King the story has always been in the foreground.
 

Walter Oobleck

keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going
Mar 6, 2013
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Wait now...what are the two value systems? The hero? The institution? And what, the idea of connectedness? Joining? Or a problem with the outcome? They start picking up the bombs again...or something else? I see that idea in King's stories. Pennants...rally around a flag, or a cause, or a theme...the whole town connected in Needful things, Gaunt, an electrician of the human soul. Tommyknockers, the same way...the town wired...but with Tommyknocker thought...Cell, the same way, flocking behavior...penance or pennants. Would you think religion is very much a part of the conflict. I'd hazard it is to. So...I dunno...isn't cognitive dissonance a smarmy term for aliens of affection? Or alien possession? Which would go a long way toward explaining the human race.