There are other Derries than this – alternative versions of "IT" in 11/22/63 and other King novels

[SvenA]

I just read 11/22/63 for the first time, and being an avid fan of IT, something struck me right away, namely that the 1958 Derry that Jake Epping

Spoiler

travels back in time to

cannot be identical to the 1958 Derry portrayed in IT with regard to the sequence of events presented in the latter novel.

Points in case:

1) From Jake's conversation in the Derry Town House Bar:

Spoiler

"We had a bad summer here, my friend. Local folks keep it as quiet as they can - even the newspaper doesn't play it up - but there was some nasty work. Murders. Half a dozen at least. Found one down in the Barrens just recently. Patrick Hockstetter, his name was. All decayed."

In IT, however, It dragged

Spoiler

the dying Patrick

into the sewers, where the Losers later passed by

Spoiler

his corpse

in 1958, only to pass it by again in 1985. Thus in that timeline

Spoiler

Patrick's corpse

could not possibly have been discovered in August or September 1958.

2) From the same conversation:

"There's people who say it was some vag who's since moved on [who was the killer]. Other folks say he was a local who dressed up like a clown to keep from being recognized."​

In IT on the other hand,

Spoiler

Henry Bowers, after having found his way out of the sewers, was arrested for several of the child murders and believed to be responsible for the rest

. And this was trumpeted by the Derry News. So how could someone living in Derry and reading the newspapers during the summer of 1958 fail to at least mention the officially touted explanation for the murders? Oh, and in IT the town newspaper is only ever identified as the Derry News, not the Derry Daily News as in 11/22/63, although this might simply be an oversight.

3) This suggests that in this continuity, Bowers was never

Spoiler

framed by It for the murders

and that he and his bully buddies met another fate than that described in IT. This seems to be hinted at also at the beginning of the Derry episode. On his arrival at the outskirts of Derry, following Route 7, Jake drives past "several produce stands" and

"As I passed the last of them, BOWERS ROADSIDE PRODUCE, a large mongrel raced out from behind several heaped baskets of tomatoes and chased me, drooling and snapping at the Sunliner's rear tires. It looked like a misbegotten bulldog. Before I lost sight at it, I saw a scrawny woman in overalls approach it and begin beating it with a piece of board."​

Both Bowers' and Hanlon's farms were located along Route 7 after the point it turned into Witcham road/street. While not conclusive, it would seem that in this continuity there is still a farmer named Bowers around to sell produce at the roadside. Yet in IT, Butch Bowers

Spoiler

was killed by his son Henry with the switchblade given to him by Pennywise

, and by September 1958, Henry

Spoiler

was already locked up

. No other Bowers than father and son are mentioned in IT. The woman beating the dog is moreover clearly not Butch Bowers' girlfriend Rena Davenport, who is described in IT as being "fat, forty, and usually filthy".

Given the themes of 11/22/63, I suspect the inconsistencies between that novel and IT are intentional, rather than the result of King not going back to check what he wrote in IT.

Besides 11/22/63, the continuity in Dreamcatcher seems to be at odds with that of IT on at least one point - if we are not to believe that Mike Hanlon commissioned the statue vandalized with the

Spoiler

"Pennywise Lives"

graffiti before

Spoiler

forgetting about the other Losers and the whole thing

but neglected to mention in it his diary, as reproduced in the epilogue to IT. I am sure there are more inconsistencies to be found both here and in Insomnia.

Any more examples or reflections?

 

[GNTLGNT]

...these are not inconsistencies , but simply different levels of the Tower...."there are other worlds than this"....

 

[Mr. Gray Robert]

...these are not inconsistencies , but simply different levels of the Tower...."there are other worlds than this"....

I agree. Bev and Richie said they felt no one would have to worry about "the guy dressed as a clown" yet at the end of IT spoiler Bill starts to forget everythingvon his way home from the sewers.

 

[mal]

Howdy Sven, You make several interesting points. Talk about attention to detail. Well done. If it was a continuity oversight then, as GNTLGNT states, it can all be covered by potentially being on a different level in the Tower.

 

[Robert Gray]

It is well established in the body of King's work that his Macroverse has a near infinite number of worlds and dimensions which connect and relate to one another. If we accept that there can be multiple New York Cities, we must apply the logic to Derry as well. It doesn't mean there "must" be more than one Derry only that the established setting allows it to be possible. It has been established in 11/22/63 that Jake Epping's forays into the past were actually responsible for spawning additional timelines (entire realities if you like) and mucking up the cosmic wire works. While I do not disagree with the notion that it is possible that Epping is from a different reality with a slightly different Derry....

I want to point out that the very moment Jake Epping entered the past (and every time thereafter) he altered it. The butterfly effect was in full effect. The apparent divergence could simply be a product of his presence. He doesn't immediately arrive in Derry. He arrives elsewhere. Thus, the conversation he has in the Derry Town House Bar about the murders (or is interactions with Bev and Richie) could have ALREADY been changed by his entrance. I know that seems like a stretch but consider the fact that his mere arrival in Maine (elsewhere in the State) could have slightly altered things so that someone travelling to Derry (or making a phone call) could have altered the time at which a sewer worker was below ground and whether they turned left or right. Finding a body can be caused simply by Jake Epping forceful assault on history. In fact, 11/22/63 seems to strongly imply such lessons.

I'm not trying to split hairs here, merely pointing out that you cannot use Jake Epping (or 11/22/63) as a basis of proof because the premise of the book itself is about altering things on subtle levels (as well as large ones) and discussing the effects. He could have entered the reality and the one true Derry but his many incursions simply created MORE.