Writing question - dunno exactly where to post this

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Grandpa

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
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So in this story that I'm putting through Inquisition-style tortures, I have a character, a strong secondary one. She starts out as being named the "young woman." And this is intentional, because the unveiling of her name later on brings about a shock of revelation to the protagonist.

But there's too much interplay with her to keep her anonymous for so long. Calling her the "young woman" for a great deal of the story is wearing on me and starting to become really annoying. And if it's annoying to me, i can't imagine the impact on the ultimate reader.

Obviously, you probably can't help me since you have no context. I guess I'm just ranting to this new family of literary-minded people that I've come to enjoy so much in such a short time.

I think the ultimate answer is: Stick to short stories, chump.
 

Walter Oobleck

keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going
Mar 6, 2013
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34,805
You might look at how others have done this. Perhaps you have, already. I don't know if you have read The Road by Cormac McCarthy, story about a father and a son, end-of-times. Story uses he...the boy...the child...uses he quite a bit, actually...they...to break up the many uses of he. Been a year or two since I read it and I don't recall exactly when, if ever...though I believe McCarthy did provide them with a name by story's end. Too...I think in his Blood Meridian he does not provide a name immediately for a character (or all of the characters) when one appears on stage, though they are mostly named by story's end.
Then...I'm thinking of The Death Ship from B Traven...story about a merchant marine man, having arrived in Europe...a story set...pre-wars as I recall...he misses ship's movement and is left there to wander from country to country. This character, whose name I don't have on hand...is only provided with his "real" name pages into the story. But Traven does provide him with a number...or several...other names, invented by the character.

But yeah...I get what you are saying about annoying. I know I've read a story or two where not knowing a character's name was initially curious, as it went on it became tiresome, and by the time a name was introduced it was beyond annoying, I felt toyed with. I don't know what the answer is for you. Best of luck with it.
 

carrie's younger brother

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2012
5,428
25,651
NJ
So in this story that I'm putting through Inquisition-style tortures, I have a character, a strong secondary one. She starts out as being named the "young woman." And this is intentional, because the unveiling of her name later on brings about a shock of revelation to the protagonist.

But there's too much interplay with her to keep her anonymous for so long. Calling her the "young woman" for a great deal of the story is wearing on me and starting to become really annoying. And if it's annoying to me, i can't imagine the impact on the ultimate reader.

Obviously, you probably can't help me since you have no context. I guess I'm just ranting to this new family of literary-minded people that I've come to enjoy so much in such a short time.

I think the ultimate answer is: Stick to short stories, chump.
Try reading Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier. The protagonist in that novel is a young woman who is never named.

Edit: I just realized that this story is told in the first person by the young woman, so it is different than what you are dealing with. Reading passages may help though. Can't hurt; it's a good book.
 
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blunthead

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2006
80,755
195,461
Atlanta GA
So in this story that I'm putting through Inquisition-style tortures, I have a character, a strong secondary one. She starts out as being named the "young woman." And this is intentional, because the unveiling of her name later on brings about a shock of revelation to the protagonist.

But there's too much interplay with her to keep her anonymous for so long. Calling her the "young woman" for a great deal of the story is wearing on me and starting to become really annoying. And if it's annoying to me, i can't imagine the impact on the ultimate reader.

Obviously, you probably can't help me since you have no context. I guess I'm just ranting to this new family of literary-minded people that I've come to enjoy so much in such a short time.

I think the ultimate answer is: Stick to short stories, chump.
I think you might be wrong in assuming that it will sound inappropriate to continue using the term young woman. I think readers would find it intriguing, not annoying.
 

VultureLvr45

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
2,650
13,707
Maryland
So in this story that I'm putting through Inquisition-style tortures, I have a character, a strong secondary one. She starts out as being named the "young woman." And this is intentional, because the unveiling of her name later on brings about a shock of revelation to the protagonist.

But there's too much interplay with her to keep her anonymous for so long. Calling her the "young woman" for a great deal of the story is wearing on me and starting to become really annoying. And if it's annoying to me, i can't imagine the impact on the ultimate reader.

Obviously, you probably can't help me since you have no context. I guess I'm just ranting to this new family of literary-minded people that I've come to enjoy so much in such a short time.

I think the ultimate answer is: Stick to short stories, chump.
Hi G,
It is so difficult to be between ages (a tween). I'm sure you will come up with something brilliant 8).
 

blunthead

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2006
80,755
195,461
Atlanta GA
I think you might be wrong in assuming that it will sound inappropriate to continue using the term young woman. I think readers would find it intriguing, not annoying.
Another thing: I sense maybe you're being too hard on yourself, second-guessing more than necessary. You're probably a melancholy temperament, a perfectionist, which an above average percentage of artists are. I wonder if you procrastinate. I suggest continuing to use the term in question, with a view to dealing with the correct answer later. That would not be procrastination by my definition but self-preservation.
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
61,289
239,271
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
You might look at how others have done this. Perhaps you have, already. I don't know if you have read The Road by Cormac McCarthy, story about a father and a son, end-of-times. Story uses he...the boy...the child...uses he quite a bit, actually...they...to break up the many uses of he. Been a year or two since I read it and I don't recall exactly when, if ever...though I believe McCarthy did provide them with a name by story's end. Too...I think in his Blood Meridian he does not provide a name immediately for a character (or all of the characters) when one appears on stage, though they are mostly named by story's end.
Then...I'm thinking of The Death Ship from B Traven...story about a merchant marine man, having arrived in Europe...a story set...pre-wars as I recall...he misses ship's movement and is left there to wander from country to country. This character, whose name I don't have on hand...is only provided with his "real" name pages into the story. But Traven does provide him with a number...or several...other names, invented by the character.

But yeah...I get what you are saying about annoying. I know I've read a story or two where not knowing a character's name was initially curious, as it went on it became tiresome, and by the time a name was introduced it was beyond annoying, I felt toyed with. I don't know what the answer is for you. Best of luck with it.
You poor dear Walter Oobleck! I think it is up to Mrs. Walter Oobleck to be doing that with you! (little bundles of hair disguised as mice, etc.)
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
61,289
239,271
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Try reading Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier. The protagonist in that novel is a young woman who is never named.

Edit: I just realized that this story is told in the first person by the young woman, so it is different than what you are dealing with. Reading passages may help though. Can't hurt; it's a good book.
I am sorry to hijack your thread Grandpa , once again, but I did love that story about Rebecca - we had to read it in high school. I also enjoyed one by Daphne du Maurier called Frenchman's Creek about a young woman and a pirate :pirate: (or a smuggler I think) which sounds absolutely ridiculous, but the story was very enjoyable!

I am not a writer myself so I wish I could give you advice re your original question. I say go with the gut instincts because if you "overthink" it you might just mess up a good story! :smile2:
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
61,289
239,271
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Don't nitpick too much. If the story is cool, the readers won't feel robbed of a name.
402085_10150639302647279_562097278_11245052_720112420_n.jpg


Sorry for the poor quality of this cartoon (or maybe it's my eyes? - I just got up!)
 

Grandpa

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
9,724
53,642
Colorado
I am frankly a little stunned. I was on a low-level rant, and literary types seemed like a decent audience. I did not expect this level of response and care.
Maybe, if the protagonist is aware of the "young woman", he's created a nick-name for her?
Brilliant. He meets her in the first chapter of substance. What's your drinking pleasure?
 

Lepplady

Chillin' since 2006
Nov 30, 2006
12,498
65,639
Red Stick
There are lots of ways to refer to a person aside from "young woman" and she. Any current context could lend itself to a reference you can use to identify her. The victim. The witness. The sweet, vulnerable girl. The exquisite creature. The stone-eyed picture of control, the blonde, the brunette... things like that.
 

Grandpa

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
9,724
53,642
Colorado
I think Walter's suggestion is a good one. You can change how you say "young woman" - assuming there are enough context clues and your readers are smart enough to know you're still talking about the same person. Will we get to read this? Do you need volunteers to read? I'd like to.
How generous! It's a story that I've given to friends, they gave me good and very enthusiastic input but said it needed to be longer, so I made it longer and by doing so destroyed it, and now I'm trying to undestroy it. (Why not just go back to the original, gripping short tale? Because they're right. The original story would be improved with character development and fleshing out some scenes.)

I revisited Mr. King's On Writing, and it's been huge - huge - in the undestruction efforts. It also led me to this site. So now this whine bring me full circle, sorta.

Anyway, now my concern is that, having given it to all my friends and my own personal Tabby, their familiarity will somewhat taint their critique. Because I know it's not a final draft I'm giving them. It's the beta version. So, yeah, I'm kinda wanting to snag some volunteers, but that is not why I came to this site. I came here because I like Mr. King's writing, mostly, and upon poking and snooping around, this sure seems to be a nice place. In fact, one of the nicest. It's not easy for me to like Internet forums, and this one just seems like a good fit.
 
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danie

I am whatever you say I am.
Feb 26, 2008
9,760
60,662
60
Kentucky
How generous! It's a story that I've given to friends, they gave me good and very enthusiastic input but said it needed to be longer, so I made it longer and by doing so destroyed it, and now I'm trying to undestroy it. (Why not just go back to the original, gripping short tale? Because they're right. The original story would be improved with character development and fleshing out some scenes.)

I revisited Mr. King's On Writing, and it's been huge - huge - in the undestruction efforts. It also led me to this site. So now this whine bring me full circle, sorta.

Anyway, now my concern is that, having given it to all my friends and my own personal Tabby, their familiarity will somewhat taint their critique. Because I know it's not a final draft I'm giving them. It's the beta version. So, yeah, I'm kinda wanting to snag some volunteers, but that is not why I came to this site. I came here because I like Mr. King's writing, mostly, and upon poking and snooping around, this sure seems to be a nice place. In fact, one of the nicest. It's not easy for me to like Internet forums, and this one just seems like a good fit.

I would like to read it as well! Not that I'll be much help, but I could try...:chuncky:
 

skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,683
92,168
USA
IMHO, if it's getting annoying to you to use the phrase often, it will annoy an editor and eventually the reader. "Young woman", used repeatedly, is cumbersome. Do you have many female characters? If not, you can go far with 'she' (knowing the reader will not get pronoun confusion). I'd be careful with an actual nickname, to be honest, unless the name issue is cleared up fairly quickly. It has a definite chance of backfiring on you and confusing the reader: "Wait--who's Susan?" *flips back to look* "Oh right--that's Blondie's real name." If the name is revealed early on, the reader doesn't have time to get attached to 'Blondie' (or at least the attachment is easy to break. Wait too long and let them get the nickname fixed in their mind and you might lose a reader.

Just a thought.