Dr. Who

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TrueGeneration

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Jun 15, 2014
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So do I! Tennant was a bomb for me, but I liked Smith well enough. Eccleston is MY Doctor (lol). I'm really hoping that they weren't just teasing about
Clara leaving at or before Christmas
, though--really don't like that character at all.

:D

I don't know what is it about Clara that I just don't like--I couldn't get the "chemistry" between her and 11. Hopefully, her dynamic with 12 will make me liker her more.
 

AnnaMarie

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Feb 16, 2012
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It was my understanding the veil "hid" the lizard like facial features. There was something in the episode where Clara no longer saw the veil.

That whole thing made no sense to me.

she's out in public, no veil. She's at home talking to Clara, no veil. Then wants to see her in a different room and tells Jenny "with" her veil (or was it bring her veil?)

So, is she saying that all along she's been out and about and many have been seeing her without a veil and not wondering why there's this strange lizard lady?
 
Mar 12, 2010
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I didn't think I'd have a problem separating Capaldi's role in Torchwood from his new role as Doctor but I am :( He was just too good in that Torchwood role. I like him as the Doctor though so maybe in time I'll forget he was in Torchwood. That was a really difficult tranformation! I'm anxious to see him in full doctor mode next week :)
 

Spideyman

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That whole thing made no sense to me.

she's out in public, no veil. She's at home talking to Clara, no veil. Then wants to see her in a different room and tells Jenny "with" her veil (or was it bring her veil?)

So, is she saying that all along she's been out and about and many have been seeing her without a veil and not wondering why there's this strange lizard lady?


I am starting to think only the writer know for sure about the veil, but maybe this will help.
DO NOT READ THESE SPOILERS UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN THE EPISODE:


Such ideas contributed to a thematically rich and self-aware story about identity, change, and the desperate compromises we’re willing to make for survival’s sake. It also went after lookism, ageism, sexism, and other forms of bias in a way that felt smug and self-serving. At one point, Madame Vastra challenged Clara—the audience surrogate—on her perceived disappointment with the Doctor’s new, older form. The reptilian E.T. asked the young lady to consider why the previous Doctor had taken such a youthful visage for himself. Clara was clueless, so Madame Vestra explained it was the same reason she wore a veil when engaging the bigoted humans around her: “To be accepted.” The line was admirable as meta-confession (it sounded like the franchise was shaming itself) but heavy-handed as social commentary.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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I am starting to think only the writer know for sure about the veil, but maybe this will help.
DO NOT READ THESE SPOILERS UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN THE EPISODE:


Such ideas contributed to a thematically rich and self-aware story about identity, change, and the desperate compromises we’re willing to make for survival’s sake. It also went after lookism, ageism, sexism, and other forms of bias in a way that felt smug and self-serving. At one point, Madame Vastra challenged Clara—the audience surrogate—on her perceived disappointment with the Doctor’s new, older form. The reptilian E.T. asked the young lady to consider why the previous Doctor had taken such a youthful visage for himself. Clara was clueless, so Madame Vestra explained it was the same reason she wore a veil when engaging the bigoted humans around her: “To be accepted.” The line was admirable as meta-confession (it sounded like the franchise was shaming itself) but heavy-handed as social commentary.

Nice summary :) I especially agree with the writer about the dinosaur. One of my favorite stories is Invasion of the Dinosaurs (a third doctor story) and hubby and I were talking about how we actually preferred the low budget dinosaurs when........
 

skimom2

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I didn't think I'd have a problem separating Capaldi's role in Torchwood from his new role as Doctor but I am :( He was just too good in that Torchwood role. I like him as the Doctor though so maybe in time I'll forget he was in Torchwood. That was a really difficult tranformation! I'm anxious to see him in full doctor mode next week :)

Just barely started Torchwood this weekend, and I've only watched two episodes. Is Capaldi's part big on that show?
 

AnnaMarie

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Feb 16, 2012
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I am starting to think only the writer know for sure about the veil, but maybe this will help.
DO NOT READ THESE SPOILERS UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN THE EPISODE:


Such ideas contributed to a thematically rich and self-aware story about identity, change, and the desperate compromises we’re willing to make for survival’s sake. It also went after lookism, ageism, sexism, and other forms of bias in a way that felt smug and self-serving. At one point, Madame Vastra challenged Clara—the audience surrogate—on her perceived disappointment with the Doctor’s new, older form. The reptilian E.T. asked the young lady to consider why the previous Doctor had taken such a youthful visage for himself. Clara was clueless, so Madame Vestra explained it was the same reason she wore a veil when engaging the bigoted humans around her: “To be accepted.” The line was admirable as meta-confession (it sounded like the franchise was shaming itself) but heavy-handed as social commentary.

I do understand all that. But, the average person walking the streets are going to be shocked to see a lizard woman.

Reading what's in your second spoiler makes me wonder if that is contributing to why some people are quite put off by the new doctor, and very critical if Capaldi's first show.
They admitted to crushing on the 10th and 11th doctors. But maybe, unconsciously, they felt put in their place, so to speak.
 

skimom2

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Reading what's in your second spoiler makes me wonder if that is contributing to why some people are quite put off by the new doctor, and very critical if Capaldi's first show.

I'm not a huge Moffett fan, so hearing a critique of his hubris and sentimentality isn't a huge surprise. It's not that he can't write, but he wastes time on asides that could be better spent on story--betting on humor or sentimentality instead and shortcutting character or story development.
 

Mr Nobody

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I'm not a huge Moffett fan, so hearing a critique of his hubris and sentimentality isn't a huge surprise. It's not that he can't write, but he wastes time on asides that could be better spent on story--betting on humor or sentimentality instead and shortcutting character or story development.

A lot of fans over here want him gone as showrunner, tbh, and in fairness I can see their point. I was pretty excited by his appointment at first, since it promised a move away from the 'soapy' elements favoured by Russell T. Davies (who, again, can certainly write, but is prone to lapses into his Coronation Street days and bouts of pathos). Over time, though, I've come to feel that he tries to be too smart for his own good. The arcs and subtle hints would be fine, if told at a less frenetic pace. With Matt Smith, particularly, I found I was trying to process stuff relevant to the arc at the same time as trying to keep a handle on his delivery...and on lines that occasionally smashed around like particles in the LHC; it was sometimes hard to focus on which strand was relevant to the story, which to the arc, and which were just spiralling away to nowhere. And, of course, some arcs seemed to go nowhere...or ultimately lacked the depth and importance that had been hinted at...or became impossible to follow up because actors had enough and left. (Just as, in RTD's time, the whole River Song storyline was holed below the waterline by David Tennant deciding his time was done, requiring some heavy retconning for Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead to make sense.)
The biggest issue I have with Moffat now, though, is the fact that he's trying to run Dr Who and Sherlock, and IMO at least the quality of both is suffering as time goes on. Of the two, Sherlock needs him more; Dr Who has any number of people who could step in and at least hold it steady, if not improve it just by stripping out certain things and focusing on the story.
 

skimom2

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Oct 9, 2013
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A lot of fans over here want him gone as showrunner, tbh, and in fairness I can see their point. I was pretty excited by his appointment at first, since it promised a move away from the 'soapy' elements favoured by Russell T. Davies (who, again, can certainly write, but is prone to lapses into his Coronation Street days and bouts of pathos). Over time, though, I've come to feel that he tries to be too smart for his own good. The arcs and subtle hints would be fine, if told at a less frenetic pace. With Matt Smith, particularly, I found I was trying to process stuff relevant to the arc at the same time as trying to keep a handle on his delivery...and on lines that occasionally smashed around like particles in the LHC; it was sometimes hard to focus on which strand was relevant to the story, which to the arc, and which were just spiralling away to nowhere. And, of course, some arcs seemed to go nowhere...or ultimately lacked the depth and importance that had been hinted at...or became impossible to follow up because actors had enough and left. (Just as, in RTD's time, the whole River Song storyline was holed below the waterline by David Tennant deciding his time was done, requiring some heavy retconning for Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead to make sense.)
The biggest issue I have with Moffat now, though, is the fact that he's trying to run Dr Who and Sherlock, and IMO at least the quality of both is suffering as time goes on. Of the two, Sherlock needs him more; Dr Who has any number of people who could step in and at least hold it steady, if not improve it just by stripping out certain things and focusing on the story.

My daughter and I were just talking about this this morning. Moffatt (misspelled last time--cry pardon) is a hell of a showman, but Gatiss is a better storyteller. He's not much of a promo guy though, so if they were in balance Sherlock would be much better off. I know all the awards came this year, but the episodes were weak narratively. Lots of funny asides, but lacking in the logic that makes Sherlock interesting. It seemed half the time that he was using magic to solve his cases. To my mind, the single strongest episode was the very first.

It would be interesting to see someone else at the helm of Doctor Who, I think. The labyrinthine storytelling that is a marvel for Sherlock (when done properly) muddies the waters on the primarily action based Who.
 

Mr Nobody

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Jul 9, 2008
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Agree entirely. Mark Gatiss can come up with some oddities at times (the 'Spitfires in Space' thing was one of his, if memory serves), but his stories are usually interesting and, on Sherlock, I've found his eps to be the best - even in S3. His documentaries on horror are pretty good, too.
As regards Who, I know he wrote a couple of books featuring the 7th Doctor (Sylvester McCoy) and knows how to draw out the character's darker side. From what I saw of Capaldi's Doc the other night, give it a year for him to settle in and develop the persona and a Gatiss 12th Doctor script could be something special. As could a Moffat one, yet; he'd just need to have the reins withdrawn. After all, Blink was one of the best Dr Who eps I've ever seen.
 

Moderator

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I'm still processing the premiere episode. Not jumping for joy about it but will give it time to settle in. Took me a long time to warm up to Matt Smith and was still meh at the end of his tenure. My partner kept on about why did they make the new doctor old and haven't quite put my finger on why that should bother him so. I had the same thought about the lizard lady and why nobody else was seeing her for who she really was.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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Texas
I'm not a huge Moffett fan, so hearing a critique of his hubris and sentimentality isn't a huge surprise. It's not that he can't write, but he wastes time on asides that could be better spent on story--betting on humor or sentimentality instead and shortcutting character or story development.

Do you think Moffat may have been part of the reason Eccleston left the show?
 

skimom2

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Do you think Moffat may have been part of the reason Eccleston left the show?
No, he didn't take over until later. What I read was that Eccleston didn't like the way the crew was treated--said he couldn't in conscience keep working in a place that treated people so badly. I'll see if I can find the article where I read that.
 

AnnaMarie

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I'm still processing the premiere episode. Not jumping for joy about it but will give it time to settle in. Took me a long time to warm up to Matt Smith and was still meh at the end of his tenure. My partner kept on about why did they make the new doctor old and haven't quite put my finger on why that should bother him so. I had the same thought about the lizard lady and why nobody else was seeing her for who she really was.

Is your partner bi? (Not my business, only curious because of this specific conversation.)

I have a few friends having major issues over the doctor being so old. They felt the previous doctors were "someone they could date". Which I find odd. These are women much closer in age to Capaldi than Tennant or Smith. (That's why I'm curious if the younger doctors are someone your partner might have been interested in dating.)

And honestly, I'd be much more likely to date someone like Capaldi, and he's one of my favourite doctors.
 
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