The horn of Eld (Spoiler Alert)

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Hanover

New Member
Sep 9, 2016
2
12
52
I literally just finished the audible series about 30 minutes ago.

Here's another theory: Roland is an Agent of Ka. He helped his friends get back on track to where they were supposed to be within reality. It's why Susannah felt she needed to be wherever Jake and Eddie were.

When he gets to the end, he's now going back in time to start again, but this time with the Horn of Eld. The horn is a subtle "nudge" that Ka has provided him and serves as the butterfly beating it's wings and changing his trajectory every so slightly. Perhaps he will draw three new cards which are other souls who's trajectories also need to be corrected. So it's not only he that needs to reach the end of his destination, so do all people in all worlds.

The beam could represent the path many of use know we should be on, yet many of us drift and end up in unhappy lives. The fact that there are only two beams active, could mean that is the way Ka wants him to travel. Who's to say another pair of beams won't be active during his next trip?

Also remember that time moves at different paces in different worlds. Just because he goes back in time in his world mean that all worlds are in synchronization. For all we know, Jake, Susannah and Eddie are still moving forward within their world despite where the Gunslinger ended up.

So ultimately Roland getting to the top of the Dark Tower won't happen until the rest of existence has been corrected and everyone with in it, is on the correct "beam". Perhaps this is will be the eternal struggle...much like Sisyphus...except with a little more hope that some progress is being made.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of the film Donnie Darko...
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
62
Cambridge, Ohio
I literally just finished the audible series about 30 minutes ago.

Here's another theory: Roland is an Agent of Ka. He helped his friends get back on track to where they were supposed to be within reality. It's why Susannah felt she needed to be wherever Jake and Eddie were.

When he gets to the end, he's now going back in time to start again, but this time with the Horn of Eld. The horn is a subtle "nudge" that Ka has provided him and serves as the butterfly beating it's wings and changing his trajectory every so slightly. Perhaps he will draw three new cards which are other souls who's trajectories also need to be corrected. So it's not only he that needs to reach the end of his destination, so do all people in all worlds.

The beam could represent the path many of use know we should be on, yet many of us drift and end up in unhappy lives. The fact that there are only two beams active, could mean that is the way Ka wants him to travel. Who's to say another pair of beams won't be active during his next trip?

Also remember that time moves at different paces in different worlds. Just because he goes back in time in his world mean that all worlds are in synchronization. For all we know, Jake, Susannah and Eddie are still moving forward within their world despite where the Gunslinger ended up.

So ultimately Roland getting to the top of the Dark Tower won't happen until the rest of existence has been corrected and everyone with in it, is on the correct "beam". Perhaps this is will be the eternal struggle...much like Sisyphus...except with a little more hope that some progress is being made.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of the film Donnie Darko...
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Pep's person

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2016
57
324
Mts o' Santa Cruz
I literally just finished the audible series about 30 minutes ago.

Here's another theory: Roland is an Agent of Ka. He helped his friends get back on track to where they were supposed to be within reality. It's why Susannah felt she needed to be wherever Jake and Eddie were.

When he gets to the end, he's now going back in time to start again, but this time with the Horn of Eld. The horn is a subtle "nudge" that Ka has provided him and serves as the butterfly beating it's wings and changing his trajectory every so slightly. Perhaps he will draw three new cards which are other souls who's trajectories also need to be corrected. So it's not only he that needs to reach the end of his destination, so do all people in all worlds.

The beam could represent the path many of use know we should be on, yet many of us drift and end up in unhappy lives. The fact that there are only two beams active, could mean that is the way Ka wants him to travel. Who's to say another pair of beams won't be active during his next trip?

Also remember that time moves at different paces in different worlds. Just because he goes back in time in his world mean that all worlds are in synchronization. For all we know, Jake, Susannah and Eddie are still moving forward within their world despite where the Gunslinger ended up.

So ultimately Roland getting to the top of the Dark Tower won't happen until the rest of existence has been corrected and everyone with in it, is on the correct "beam". Perhaps this is will be the eternal struggle...much like Sisyphus...except with a little more hope that some progress is being made.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of the film Donnie Darko...
Great post! Thanks for your insights!
 

19Mai

New Member
Sep 22, 2016
1
5
(First post)

Oh I like Hanover's thoughts on Roland being an Agent of Ka - descendant of Arthur of the Line of the Eld. Arthur/Roland re-meets Maerlyn/Flagg.

I'm listening to W&G while writing this. Not sure I like Muller's narration; the female voices annoy the hell out of me, they sound so much alike. Good thing SK's writing is SO incredibly vivid and rich that despite only having read the entire 8 books twice (first 4 three times), my mind's eye automatically transports me into that Universe - even down to anticipating a remarkable amount of sentences before Muller gives voice to them. I hope this doesn't break forum rules, but if anyone has ever imbibed DMT it reminds me of revisiting that same alien-yet-familiar hyperspace Universe.

In any case... Personally the ending maddened me for about ten minutes until I calmed down and allowed the brilliance to overcome petulance (and no doubt laziness at wanting to be spoon fed a satisfying ending). I don't doubt the DT story is one of a Karmic Journey. Whose Journey? Roland's? Susannah/Eddie/Jake/Alain/Cuthbert/etc? Stephen Kings?

I agree King's writing is quite noticeable, not sure if it would be fair of me to complain though. Deus ex Machina - of course King is the God out of the Machine; he wrote it. Another author would not have been authentic and so it had to be him. Is King also the Gan? The opposite of the Crimson King? Why then wouldn't Stephen (Roland's father ye ken) King also be able to simply erase him? The characters are supplied by SK; in this world which has been said is the True world. There are many references to Roland's world being landscaped from SK's Mind. Movie's he'd likely seen (Wizard of Oz, Return to Oz - the Gump/the Romp, "spaghetti westerns," Harry Potter etc).

I've often wondered - and surely I'm not the only one - of what do our dreams dream? In the Hindu scriptures the Veda's, it is written that the Gods came AFTER creation. So... Who/WHAT created the Gods? Are we the dreams of a greater Dreamer? And Who/WHAT dreamt of them? Is the Dark Tower itself singular within ALL that has been created? Or is there a Dark Tower for EACH of us created? If I wrote/created a saga revolving around the central heroine on her journey to my Dark Tower would the archetypes remain the same? Would she look similar to me, as Roland does to King? Would an external expression of my story be necessary, or could my dreams/hallucinations achieve the same? Most importantly; could it shape my Journey in my/our True World into something useful??

To revise: actually our combined True World (in other words "consensual reality") could not be Stephen King's True World as said in the book otherwise we would have consensual evidence of Roland's Ka tet arrival into our world; ergo perhaps the book's True World is probably (guessing) one level off.

I could continue musing for hours, as I'm sure you all have here. How I've not yet joined any Stephen King fora is as big a mystery to me as the hearts of the hateful. I'll no doubt change my mind regarding any and everything I've said in time and growing perspective. Perhaps I'll come back around to it once more. Ka is a wheel, after all.
 

Maeglin

New Member
Oct 8, 2016
1
5
44
I just finished the Dark Tower today, so I'll throw my two cents in so they stop still rattling around in my head. I too think that Roland goes back to the beginning of the Gunslinger book as a sort of purgatory and chance to find redemption. King even states in the last Coda that things may be different this time and "there may yet be rest ... even salvation". As others suggest, the horn of Eld is a symbol that Roland has progressed a bit along the path of redemption since his last cycle through the Tower. I think he has many more trips through the Tower though.

Roland's biggest problem is that his bloodymindedness in pursing the Tower leads him to make choices that hurt others (such as his decision to let Jake fall). Not only that, but he does not think he needs redemption. In Wolves of the Calla, Fr. Callahan offers to hear Roland's confession. Roland thinks that Fr. Callahan's offer is laughable. One, because he doubts Fr. Callahan can bring forgiveness from God, and also more importantly because Roland feels he needs none.

My great hope for Roland is that he will realize eventually just how much damage his quest is causing. I hope on his last cycle, he will prevent Jake from falling (at the risk of losing the Man in Black) on the ancient bridge. This will prevent the need to draw Jake in the Speaking Ring thereby avoiding the great evil that befalls Susannah in the conception of Mordred. I think some version of Eddie and Susannah will still be drawn in this final cycle, but much of the heartache in the final 3 books will be mitigated. Ultimately, a redeemed Roland will perhaps give his life to save the Beams a final time or swear off the Dark Tower when he realizes that saving the beams is enough. This will prevent him from entering the Tower a final time and break the cycle.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
53,634
236,697
The High Seas
I just finished the Dark Tower today, so I'll throw my two cents in so they stop still rattling around in my head. I too think that Roland goes back to the beginning of the Gunslinger book as a sort of purgatory and chance to find redemption. King even states in the last Coda that things may be different this time and "there may yet be rest ... even salvation". As others suggest, the horn of Eld is a symbol that Roland has progressed a bit along the path of redemption since his last cycle through the Tower. I think he has many more trips through the Tower though.

Roland's biggest problem is that his bloodymindedness in pursing the Tower leads him to make choices that hurt others (such as his decision to let Jake fall). Not only that, but he does not think he needs redemption. In Wolves of the Calla, Fr. Callahan offers to hear Roland's confession. Roland thinks that Fr. Callahan's offer is laughable. One, because he doubts Fr. Callahan can bring forgiveness from God, and also more importantly because Roland feels he needs none.

My great hope for Roland is that he will realize eventually just how much damage his quest is causing. I hope on his last cycle, he will prevent Jake from falling (at the risk of losing the Man in Black) on the ancient bridge. This will prevent the need to draw Jake in the Speaking Ring thereby avoiding the great evil that befalls Susannah in the conception of Mordred. I think some version of Eddie and Susannah will still be drawn in this final cycle, but much of the heartache in the final 3 books will be mitigated. Ultimately, a redeemed Roland will perhaps give his life to save the Beams a final time or swear off the Dark Tower when he realizes that saving the beams is enough. This will prevent him from entering the Tower a final time and break the cycle.
Welcome Maeglin!
 

Spideyman

Uber Member
Jul 10, 2006
46,336
195,472
79
Just north of Duma Key
I just finished the Dark Tower today, so I'll throw my two cents in so they stop still rattling around in my head. I too think that Roland goes back to the beginning of the Gunslinger book as a sort of purgatory and chance to find redemption. King even states in the last Coda that things may be different this time and "there may yet be rest ... even salvation". As others suggest, the horn of Eld is a symbol that Roland has progressed a bit along the path of redemption since his last cycle through the Tower. I think he has many more trips through the Tower though.

Roland's biggest problem is that his bloodymindedness in pursing the Tower leads him to make choices that hurt others (such as his decision to let Jake fall). Not only that, but he does not think he needs redemption. In Wolves of the Calla, Fr. Callahan offers to hear Roland's confession. Roland thinks that Fr. Callahan's offer is laughable. One, because he doubts Fr. Callahan can bring forgiveness from God, and also more importantly because Roland feels he needs none.

My great hope for Roland is that he will realize eventually just how much damage his quest is causing. I hope on his last cycle, he will prevent Jake from falling (at the risk of losing the Man in Black) on the ancient bridge. This will prevent the need to draw Jake in the Speaking Ring thereby avoiding the great evil that befalls Susannah in the conception of Mordred. I think some version of Eddie and Susannah will still be drawn in this final cycle, but much of the heartache in the final 3 books will be mitigated. Ultimately, a redeemed Roland will perhaps give his life to save the Beams a final time or swear off the Dark Tower when he realizes that saving the beams is enough. This will prevent him from entering the Tower a final time and break the cycle.
Hi and welcome
 

CactusMatt

New Member
Mar 5, 2017
1
2
64
I didn't really care for the end. And here is why:
-the last three books of DT felt like mr. King tried to be done with DT.
I think that after "Wizard and Glass" DT IV, he got jammed, he had painted himself in the corner.
And he says, as i understand it, something about it in DT VII. He talks about ghost in the machine; when you don't, as a author, know how to continue with the story you introduce something/someone to the story that resolves all problems and the story can continue.
And i feel like SK in the story was that ghost.

For me the last three books were like different story by different writer. Yes the characters were the same, and their quest was same, but for me it felt like these last books were written in a hurry and were lacking soul. And Ghost In The Machine was ever present.

I agree completely with you.

I started reading the DT in college - probably around 1980, and read them from time to time as they came out, in between IT, Tommyknockers and a few others. Got married, had kids, and then finally finished it up. I guess it was finished. My interpretation on the delayed and weird ending was SK finally got pissed at people always asking him - for years - when he was going to finish, so he threw some 'spaghetti' on the wall and said 'done'.

I have pondered this over the years and the idea I had was like the sequel to Gone With the Wind - there is an absolute FORTUNE sitting there for a talented writer to write the true ending to DT, not the piece of 'spaghetti' that currently sits there stinking up the back of my mind that I wasted 20 years of my life.
 

Snicks323

Member
Mar 26, 2017
18
107
66
I finished reading the books a couple of days ago and have to say I'm with those who would have liked a different ending. That being said, my imagination went to work trying out different alternatives for Roland to find freedom. The ending as Sai King wrote it has blessed me with this inner journey. So I say thank ya!

Did anyone one else notice a correlation between the story of Charley the Choo Choo and Roland's life? There was mention of the illustration at the end of the train book, that the people looked more fearful than having fun. Roland circling around and around the same life loop, pulling people through the doors to go on the ride with him, sounds like the "Charley" train ride. :0!

Yes, I wanted something different for Roland. I agree, his single-minded focus on his mission has caused him to keep repeating his life from the same point over and over. I also suspect that, even if he did it all correctly, with the horn of Eld and different choices when it comes to killing, he might still be on the grinding wheel of his life.
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
62
Cambridge, Ohio
I finished reading the books a couple of days ago and have to say I'm with those who would have liked a different ending. That being said, my imagination went to work trying out different alternatives for Roland to find freedom. The ending as Sai King wrote it has blessed me with this inner journey. So I say thank ya!

Did anyone one else notice a correlation between the story of Charley the Choo Choo and Roland's life? There was mention of the illustration at the end of the train book, that the people looked more fearful than having fun. Roland circling around and around the same life loop, pulling people through the doors to go on the ride with him, sounds like the "Charley" train ride. :0!

Yes, I wanted something different for Roland. I agree, his single-minded focus on his mission has caused him to keep repeating his life from the same point over and over. I also suspect that, even if he did it all correctly, with the horn of Eld and different choices when it comes to killing, he might still be on the grinding wheel of his life.
....that is one theory(Charlie/Roland) I'd never seen before and a pretty damn good one!.....
 

TetCorp

New Member
Apr 18, 2017
3
12
36
Hello! New to the boards here but a long time reader. So I just finished the series for the first time. Blew through it 5 months as I could not put the books down. My biggest question: Is Roland aware that he is in a loop? I wonder this because he remembers at the top of the tower and says "not again!" Is he just hit with the realization when he's in the tower or is he somewhat aware the whole time? A big part of me feels like he is.
 

Snicks323

Member
Mar 26, 2017
18
107
66
Hello! New to the boards here but a long time reader. So I just finished the series for the first time. Blew through it 5 months as I could not put the books down. My biggest question: Is Roland aware that he is in a loop? I wonder this because he remembers at the top of the tower and says "not again!" Is he just hit with the realization when he's in the tower or is he somewhat aware the whole time? A big part of me feels like he is.

Welcome! I think Roland is unconsciously aware throughout the journey. It fits with some of his responses. Full awareness comes when he is at the top of the tower and sees that he is going back to the desert. I think he has a few minutes to recall the whole, long struggle and journey. Then amnesia sets in. What remains is his quest for the man in dark and the tower.
 

Slevin

New Member
Jun 1, 2017
2
7
35
Hello everyone! I am new here, and this is my first post :)
I am not a native english speaker, so sorry for my english :p

I finished the story last weekend and actually I didn't like the ending. Not maybe HOW it ended but WHEN. I feel like having a lot of questions, maybe some things I did not understand and some things should be more or better explained in my opinion.

I start with the things I didn't like.
Why is SK spoiling the deaths of the characters? I think it's at the ending of book 1 or 2 where he writes something like "not everyone will survive"... but why?
Then I don't like the way he treats the villains. Walter Padick was just eaten by Mordred and then it was the end of the man in black. I expected MUCH more. I always thought he isn't just evil, that he knows much more, that he kinda tries to save Roland from the DK because he knew what happens there? He had the ability to travel through times? But nope, he was just evil and got eaten. Sad imo.

The big coffin hunters. Really nice exciting "mexican standoff" scene at this bar. I also expected much more. Eldred Jonas maybe in another book? 2 of them just got shot and thats it.
Andrew Quick, aka. Tick-Tock Man. Just shot down. Mordred. This super clever, strong monster was weakened by rotten flesh and had a tough time against little OY... then shot down....
Wolves of the calla. Just a short battle. How he dealt with the crimson king was just ridiculous. Actually the last pages, where they found Patrick Danville felt like SK had enough of the books and tried to finish it fast.

Now a thing that I do not understand. Why can they save SK in book 7? The books told me so many times that there are only 2 worlds where the time can only go forward. Roland's world and SK's world where Roland and Eddie met him. At the end of book 6 SK dies. I thought SK died in the fundamental world but it can not be because they save him in book 7.... or do I miss something?

And the ending? I was pretty sad when Susannah left Roland. I thought she had a bigger task at the ending. For me a better ending would be, something like:
Susannah would not leave Roland, they would never meet Patrick Danville, then at the fight with the crimson king Roland would sacrifce himself to save Susannah, because in one book there stand something like "he just loved one woman like Susan Delgado" or something like this, and this one woman would be Susannah, then when Roland dies also the crimson king would disappear because there can not be red without white in the world. Gan/ the tower would then tell Roland that he finally won against his obsession of the dark tower and is now free and he can meet his family and friend at the clearing at the end of the path. Susannah would then enter the tower and would split into 2 persons. Odetta and Detta. Detta would become the guardian of the tower in Roland's world and Odetta would go back to NY through a door and become the guardian of the rose in SK's world.
Maybe pretty lame for the most people here :D but I would like it.

Imo it's pretty lame from an author the leave the reader with something like SK did. People like to talk about the ending, tell what they think it means and so on but I think SK just didn't know how to end his story properly.