I liked Demons of the Punjab better than the last two. Still the first three episodes feel the best. Especially after watching the second episode, The Ghost Monument, again it promised a much bigger scale for the series, and lots of action. The first episode had a lot of action too. But the scale and amount of action has gone so much down over the last episodes.
Dr. Who
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Re: Chibnall as show runner. Tbh I'm not at all sure of the process. It does seem to be a case of 'currently writing for the show? In you go, then'. Russell T Davies got the nod to get everything rolling because he was known to be a fan, was one of those involved in keeping DW going unofficially (as were Moffat and Gatiss), and was also a pretty hot ticket at the time (he'd not long scored a hit with Queer As Folk). Since then it's seemed to be a case of offering it around the writing staff to see who wants or has time for it, and a lot of the casting has been the same way - openly so under Moffat: both he and Mark Gatiss said it was very nepotistic, and this time around Chibnall has worked with JW and the rest of the central cast before.
But with regard to Demons of the Punjab, it was a hell of a lot better than in previous weeks. I had wondered whether it was going to be a heavy-handed 'bash the British' type of affair, given the subject matter (and if the Battle of Britain was our finest hour (though Churchill was really talking about the RAF, and even more specifically Fighter Command), the Partition has to rank among our worst), but it was actually very nuanced, showing that, although the final decision rested with the British, it was in large part a response to internal/Indian demands (and supported by none other than Mahatma Ghandi) even if it was rushed/bodged by an administration in a hurry to get on with the process of moving out (shades of something more current, there...
)
But with regard to Demons of the Punjab, it was a hell of a lot better than in previous weeks. I had wondered whether it was going to be a heavy-handed 'bash the British' type of affair, given the subject matter (and if the Battle of Britain was our finest hour (though Churchill was really talking about the RAF, and even more specifically Fighter Command), the Partition has to rank among our worst), but it was actually very nuanced, showing that, although the final decision rested with the British, it was in large part a response to internal/Indian demands (and supported by none other than Mahatma Ghandi) even if it was rushed/bodged by an administration in a hurry to get on with the process of moving out (shades of something more current, there...
)I'm not sure that the aliens were entirely necessary to the plot, though it did allow for some nice nods given that it went out on Remembrance Day (the dying/dead soldier, the fields of poppies), and it was fitting that the 'demons', in the end, wore all-too-human faces.
The only downside, for me, was Jodie Whittaker. Up to now she's been good, with the writing letting her down. There was at least one instance of that again this week (having her say "I don't understand"...and since when does the Doctor have blank spots where alien species are concerned? Even Patrick Troughton's Doctor knew who the Cybermen were on their first encounter, even if he was ignorant as to the specific events), but for the first time I found her performance to be grating. She really needs to stop with the overacting gormless faces (wide eyes, jaw open, upper lip curled). I know every Doctor has their tics and that's all to the good - it's part of what makes each regeneration work - but it really seems as though the Doctor has shed a bucketload of IQ points this time around. Even my gf - a casual DW viewer if ever there was one - has asked why the Doctor is suddenly so (relatively) dumb. There is an answer, of course, and IMO it's, unfortunately, an obvious one.
The only downside, for me, was Jodie Whittaker. Up to now she's been good, with the writing letting her down. There was at least one instance of that again this week (having her say "I don't understand"...and since when does the Doctor have blank spots where alien species are concerned? Even Patrick Troughton's Doctor knew who the Cybermen were on their first encounter, even if he was ignorant as to the specific events), but for the first time I found her performance to be grating. She really needs to stop with the overacting gormless faces (wide eyes, jaw open, upper lip curled). I know every Doctor has their tics and that's all to the good - it's part of what makes each regeneration work - but it really seems as though the Doctor has shed a bucketload of IQ points this time around. Even my gf - a casual DW viewer if ever there was one - has asked why the Doctor is suddenly so (relatively) dumb. There is an answer, of course, and IMO it's, unfortunately, an obvious one.
But the Doctor can't know every alien species (s)he comes across certainly? In the Whoniverse there seem an endless amount of alien species, there seems no way to know them all.
Her seeming dumb doesn't bother me at all. I don't find it that noticeable at least. She still comes up with a solution each time - maybe she just thinks aloud more while trying to find it than the others do. It's also the way she tries to make it more humorous I think, when she says 'I don't understand it', I think it's not entirely serious - it's just her first reaction to something new.
She still lacks a certain distinct personality though for me, or at least something that makes me really like her. I don't DISlike her, but I feel slightly indifferent to her. It's only a couple of episodes in though, so maybe it's a matter of time, and sometimes you only get this feeling in a second season when someone is much more familiar. I think with Capaldi it took me longer too than the other Doctors of the modern series, but by the end I quite liked him.
Actually in regards to the aliens in Demons of the Punjab. Without those it would have barely felt like Dr. Who anymore, so different was it in feel and atmosphere to anything I've previously seen on Dr. Who.
It still looks amazingly cinematic, there are many shots in there that felt like out of theatrical film rather than tv.
Another thing in regards to Whittaker's performance: I think it's hard to compete against Tennant and Smith who basically took it completely over the top. With Tennant it was sometimes too much for me, but Smith was exactly what I liked.
It still looks amazingly cinematic, there are many shots in there that felt like out of theatrical film rather than tv.
Another thing in regards to Whittaker's performance: I think it's hard to compete against Tennant and Smith who basically took it completely over the top. With Tennant it was sometimes too much for me, but Smith was exactly what I liked.
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In a nice change the Christmas special is replaced with a New Year's special:
Doctor Who lands on Who Year's Day
Doctor Who lands on Who Year's Day
Re: knowledge of alien species, I can't remember if it was always the case, but certainly in recent times (i.e. post-2005) the Doctor has displayed an encyclopaedic level of knowledge of who/what they are, their history and culture, and so on. Then again I suppose that kind of knowledge, or lack of it, will come and go as the story demands it.
Fair point about the apparent dumbness. It's just an unfortunate line to give to this particular Doctor. In the past the Doc has tended to think out loud a lot, but without saying 'I don't get it' (Capaldi's Doctor might have said something like 'There's something I'm not getting' rather than 'I don't understand'). Doing it now, and in the way they've done it, makes the Doctor seem a little less sharp. Then again, in the most recent ep there was no mention of not understanding or not getting something, so maybe it was a lingering post-regeneration thing.
Agree too about JW's performance (which was good again this week, even if the episode was, IMO, pretty poor
There's nothing yet that makes her truly distinctive. Christopher Eccleston's Doctor was marked by his Time War experiences, subsequent struggles (it could be said that he was the PTSD Doctor), and, ultimately, by his *ahem* humanity. Tennant's era was the start of the OTT business, but was marked by the Doc's determination that occasionally bordered on bloody-mindedness, and so on. And as has already been mentioned, Smith's Doctor was a madman in a box right from the start. Capaldi took more time, and for whatever reason the decision was made to make his Doctor grumpy and sarcastic at first, but by the end, while those traits were still there, there was much more of a playful, but dignified persona.
With that said, I don't think JW has been given the opportunity to let her Doctor 'breathe'. Some of that is because of the scripting, but mostly I think it's down to having three companions who, because they're new and because companions are always the audience's true point of contact, have needed to have more skin put on their bones - though it could still be argued that Yaz is by far the least developed (both female characters underdeveloped? Wonder why that could be? Only having had one woman write for the show this series, and even then taking her script and playing around with it, perhaps?)
Either way, for us to say we're not getting much of a feel for who this Doctor is at seven eps in (with only 3 more to go) shows that something hasn't quite worked as intended.
As for the special being moved to New Year's Day...that's yet another strange decision by the BBC, IMO. DW has been a fixture of Christmas Day TV since the return, and the viewing figures for this series are still up (even if the overnights are sagging a bit). All I can think is that there is a lack of support within the BBC for the series. No doubt they wanted more room in the schedule for an extra long Christmas Strictly, followed by Call The Midwife or something (or maybe a third or fourth Christmas Day helping of EastEnders).
It just seemed odd that the Doctor knew about the aliens in Demons of the Punjab, but only to a point. She was totally ignorant of their more recent history (though I imagine the destruction of a planet should have stuck, especially since it was home to an advanced/intelligent species).
Fair point about the apparent dumbness. It's just an unfortunate line to give to this particular Doctor. In the past the Doc has tended to think out loud a lot, but without saying 'I don't get it' (Capaldi's Doctor might have said something like 'There's something I'm not getting' rather than 'I don't understand'). Doing it now, and in the way they've done it, makes the Doctor seem a little less sharp. Then again, in the most recent ep there was no mention of not understanding or not getting something, so maybe it was a lingering post-regeneration thing.
Agree too about JW's performance (which was good again this week, even if the episode was, IMO, pretty poor
(and I didn't like the Doctor more or less shilling for big business)).
With that said, I don't think JW has been given the opportunity to let her Doctor 'breathe'. Some of that is because of the scripting, but mostly I think it's down to having three companions who, because they're new and because companions are always the audience's true point of contact, have needed to have more skin put on their bones - though it could still be argued that Yaz is by far the least developed (both female characters underdeveloped? Wonder why that could be? Only having had one woman write for the show this series, and even then taking her script and playing around with it, perhaps?)
Either way, for us to say we're not getting much of a feel for who this Doctor is at seven eps in (with only 3 more to go) shows that something hasn't quite worked as intended.
As for the special being moved to New Year's Day...that's yet another strange decision by the BBC, IMO. DW has been a fixture of Christmas Day TV since the return, and the viewing figures for this series are still up (even if the overnights are sagging a bit). All I can think is that there is a lack of support within the BBC for the series. No doubt they wanted more room in the schedule for an extra long Christmas Strictly, followed by Call The Midwife or something (or maybe a third or fourth Christmas Day helping of EastEnders).
They may have thought making her a woman was enough distinction. Anyway, it doesn't look too good for the future of Chibnall and Whittaker:
'Doctor Who': Jodie Whittaker, Chris Chibnall Rumored to Exit in 2019
'Doctor Who': Jodie Whittaker, Chris Chibnall Rumored to Exit in 2019
Possibly. They'd have been wrong, because "Look! A woman!" isn't interesting (I mean, ~50% of the population are women). And this might be news to them, but women also have character. Even more of a shock (but only to certain types in suits and box-checkers, maybe) is that *gasp* they're also individuals, with their own distinct thoughts, opinions, needs and wants! (I know: shocking stuff, right?)
So failing to give the Doc a character besides 'woman' is not progressive in any sense at all. Rather the opposite.
The rumours about him/them leaving are strange, though. I've got no problem with Chibnall* walking away, if I'm honest, but JW is fine. It seems she thinks of them as some kind of package deal though, so if he goes, she goes too. Given that the viewing figures have remained at a decent level (7.4m for Kerblam, which is slightly down on Demons of the Punjab and 3.5m down on the season premier's final total), I'm surprised the BBC are letting him, though. Unless of course the brief was to completely destroy the show once and for all, in which case he'll be moving on because he's failed.
Well, I say failed. He would have, but only to a point. It's more than fair to say that this season has been patchy at best, and tbh the last couple of eps really have been missed opportunities.
Let's just hope the final eps of the season get back to something like the level of the first.
*The article states that he thinks ten 40-45 min eps plus a special is "untenable". It's 450-515 minutes of television per year, for God's sake! And he doesn't have to write all the scripts himself! At ~1 page per minute, the average DW script works out to between 40 and 50 pages. Write 6 eps of the 10 and that's 300 pages, max. You could, if you wanted, write a page a day! (OK, call it two to allow for shooting time). Hardly bloody onerous, is it? (Certainly not when compared to producing 5-10 pages of prose per day (~1750-3500 words), which is my average work rate - and I write my first drafts longhand!)
So failing to give the Doc a character besides 'woman' is not progressive in any sense at all. Rather the opposite.
The rumours about him/them leaving are strange, though. I've got no problem with Chibnall* walking away, if I'm honest, but JW is fine. It seems she thinks of them as some kind of package deal though, so if he goes, she goes too. Given that the viewing figures have remained at a decent level (7.4m for Kerblam, which is slightly down on Demons of the Punjab and 3.5m down on the season premier's final total), I'm surprised the BBC are letting him, though. Unless of course the brief was to completely destroy the show once and for all, in which case he'll be moving on because he's failed.
Well, I say failed. He would have, but only to a point. It's more than fair to say that this season has been patchy at best, and tbh the last couple of eps really have been missed opportunities.
Who would have thought you could have gone wrong with an ep about the witches of Pendle Hill, the English/British Salem? There are interesting rumours and stories a-plenty about that place, most of which have fallen out of common knowledge and any or all of which could have been given a tweak or two to make a very interesting DW ep, but what we got instead was...well, disappointing. And the dialogue! Sheesh!
I'll also point out that, though there was a load of 'women have it so hard' stuff, being a peasant in the Stuart era wasn't a heap of fun regardless of sex. In fact, the men would have been off mining ore, mostly with their hands, or working the fields. Back-breaking labour in the quite literal sense, back then.
I'll also point out that, though there was a load of 'women have it so hard' stuff, being a peasant in the Stuart era wasn't a heap of fun regardless of sex. In fact, the men would have been off mining ore, mostly with their hands, or working the fields. Back-breaking labour in the quite literal sense, back then.
*The article states that he thinks ten 40-45 min eps plus a special is "untenable". It's 450-515 minutes of television per year, for God's sake! And he doesn't have to write all the scripts himself! At ~1 page per minute, the average DW script works out to between 40 and 50 pages. Write 6 eps of the 10 and that's 300 pages, max. You could, if you wanted, write a page a day! (OK, call it two to allow for shooting time). Hardly bloody onerous, is it? (Certainly not when compared to producing 5-10 pages of prose per day (~1750-3500 words), which is my average work rate - and I write my first drafts longhand!)
Ever the skeptic.....anyone think this rumour was released to raise ratings? Nothing attracts people more than saying something is about to end.
And
Sounds like Whitaker wasn’t so thrilled with being The Doctor. She just wanted to work with Chibnall.
And
Sounds like Whitaker wasn’t so thrilled with being The Doctor. She just wanted to work with Chibnall.
Neesy
#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
This might be straying a bit off topic but I noticed when playing a free game on my iPad that these little videos pop up and almost always the women are dressed in bathing suits! (even during a 'battle' where the men are fully clothed) - I wonder who designs these games? (perhaps adolescent boys)
If not in skimpy outfits, they are definitely exposing a lot more flesh than the men, so not sure how that is supposed to contribute to the enjoyment. You would think by now they would grow up.I think Whittaker was interested in playing The Doctor, but overall Doctor Who has a demanding filming schedule, it's filmed abroad a lot - The Ghost Monument is South Africa, for example. It takes up a lot of time to film. Also you see these combinations of people working together a lot - they've worked together in the past, it went well, and they keep working together, because they like and know and trust each other and it produces good results.
I loved Kerblam, but Witchfinders was disappointingly average. The last two sound intriguing.
No, I don't think they want rumours like this to get out at all.
I loved Kerblam, but Witchfinders was disappointingly average. The last two sound intriguing.
No, I don't think they want rumours like this to get out at all.
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Well....that’s an hour of my life I’ll never get back.
They decided to not use any of the old favourite alien/monsters. I thought that might be a mistake. I’m thinking it more and more. Some cybermen or Daleks might save the season,
They decided to not use any of the old favourite alien/monsters. I thought that might be a mistake. I’m thinking it more and more. Some cybermen or Daleks might save the season,
Hi all, never watched Dr Who but want to give it a try and wondering where is the best place to start. With Christopher Eccleston and Co or jump forward a bit.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I started with Eccleston and almost kissed it goodbye. But, so many people love this, I knew there had to be a reason so I hung in there and I was wholly rewarded when David Tennant came on the scene. I felt the quality of the production was better, looked to have a bigger budget and the stories were interesting. I didn't think I could love another doctor after him, but I did.
So, if you can, I would start with Eccleston and hang in there. Hang in there.
The reason why this Doctor feels more 'blank' than her predecessors is probably because they wanted this season to be mostly unrelated to anything before. They wanted it to be something anyone could watch and understand without prior knowledge.
But it's strange they decided that her main character trait seems to be that she's not too smart apparently, or at least thinks of herself as such. She actually said that she's dumb this episode.
But it's strange they decided that her main character trait seems to be that she's not too smart apparently, or at least thinks of herself as such. She actually said that she's dumb this episode.
Which I think is an unfortunate choice.
It's strange for sure. I don't know all the Doctors well, but none have been portrayed as dimwitted as far as I know. Scattered of course, but that's more a trait often combined with genius.
Or she's extremely hard on herself, scolding herself often for not getting something right away,
I started with Eccleston and, as you can see, he is still my favourite. Love him and I’m still sad he only did one season.
But then, I went back 50 years, and I am loving the old ones too. I just hope I can get fully on board with JW. There are moments I think “here we go....” but so far it never stays.
I agree. He should've had another season at least.
I really did like Eccleston a lot and I loved his traveling companion, Rose.
It was the quality of the visuals I struggled with.
I would've liked to have seen him in the slicker looking Dr. Who productions instead of the bad H.R. Pufnstuf episodes.
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Peter Capaldi mostly took over the over-the-top approach of Tennant and Smith, playing electric guitar and things like that. Now they seperated it mostly from what's gone before, so it's understandable they wanted that to stop, but it's almost like they erased everything the Doctor knows and has experienced. It's all new to her apparently, that's why she's a bit behind all the time. I suppose it's the most complete reboot in the entire history of the series. But still they occasionally refer to things that happened in earlier series, so that is at odds with that.
But she's like a much younger, more inexperienced Doctor. I suppose that's the approach they took. But since the intention is never stated clear anywhere, she just seems less smart.
It didn't overly bother me, til it was pointed out earlier in this thread. But now she even said it herself, so it's hard to ignore.
Apart from that this was a pretty good episode. The frog was a strange touch, but I liked it. Often it doesn't look great when a realistic looking and portrayed animal starts to speak, so that's always a bit of a problem.
But she's like a much younger, more inexperienced Doctor. I suppose that's the approach they took. But since the intention is never stated clear anywhere, she just seems less smart.
It didn't overly bother me, til it was pointed out earlier in this thread. But now she even said it herself, so it's hard to ignore.
Apart from that this was a pretty good episode. The frog was a strange touch, but I liked it. Often it doesn't look great when a realistic looking and portrayed animal starts to speak, so that's always a bit of a problem.