Lord Of The Flies

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AnnaRose

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2013
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Finished this two days ago. A great book, I suggest anyone who hasn't read to do so.

I am curious to know all of your reactions to the spiral into savagery (is that a word?) the boys undergo. How did it make you look at humanity differently?

I am a cynic and have my doubts about humanity. I believe humans are evil at the core. The boys constantly put emphasis on what adults would do. To me this shows that they are (were) civilized because that's what they were taught and how they were raised, but when left on their own they turn savage.

And not to bring sexism into it, but how do you think the story would have changed if there were boys and girls or all girls?
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
62
Cambridge, Ohio
...I have you beat honey... I'm a cynical pessimist...BUT...I still believe that in more than we can imagine-are human souls with the light of good...boys AND girls?...uber-violent...sex drive does ugly things to a boys souls, especially one that has become unfettered from societal norms and expectations...and I agree with Staro about the ladies...
 

Walter Oobleck

keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going
Mar 6, 2013
11,749
34,805
There's a great line in Don Quixote by Cervantes...a story everyone should find the time to read:
Virtue is persecuted by the wicked more than it is loved by the good.
We do tend to gravitate toward the bad, hey? In some ways, the story also reminds me of John Knowles's, A Separate Peace...story of two boys (I think they are mid-teens) during the war years, the big war, the war to end all war...or the one after, who can keep them straight anymore. But in Knowles's story, Gene & Phineas, w/o benefit of the lack of adult supervision, safe within the boundaries of their community, play all manner of rough games, preparing themselves for war, seems to me. We, too, as boys, played all manner of games, almost in the same fashion as the boys on the island...we fashioned spears from branches we collected in the nearby woods (our four-gable schoolhouse backed up to the woods on one side) and we fashioned red sandstone points for tips. We didn't go to the lengths as the boys on the island...but we were just a breath away.

Would the story have been different w/boys & girls...or just girls? Yes...but only after a fashion. Take a cue from any reality television show where such a scenario exists...one bachelor and twenty-five women...or vice versa. Survivor...another...it's not much of a stretch of the imagination to believe the story would have only differed by degrees.
 

skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,683
92,168
USA
What a great book. I think that without civilizing influences, if one is clinging by fingernails to the thin edge of survival, life would be "nasty, brutish, and short" for most people. We're at our nadir of Maslow's hierarchy of needs at that point--we're animals trying to survive. I don't think that it would be different if it was girls. There might be some difference with grown women if there were dependent children involved. In that situation, our genetic programming would likely lend itself to protection of the young. It could be better--more organization, etc--but it could also be more vicious, if women were battling to keep their own children alive instead of pooling resources for the group.
 

MadamMack

M e m b e r
Apr 11, 2006
17,958
45,138
UnParked, UnParked U.S.A.
Finished this two days ago. A great book, I suggest anyone who hasn't read to do so.

I am curious to know all of your reactions to the spiral into savagery (is that a word?) the boys undergo. How did it make you look at humanity differently?

I am a cynic and have my doubts about humanity. I believe humans are evil at the core. The boys constantly put emphasis on what adults would do. To me this shows that they are (were) civilized because that's what they were taught and how they were raised, but when left on their own they turn savage.

And not to bring sexism into it, but how do you think the story would have changed if there were boys and girls or all girls?

I agree and I think it would have been the same with females too. I'm a cynic as well.
 

AnnaRose

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2013
110
650
27
California
There's a great line in Don Quixote by Cervantes...a story everyone should find the time to read:
Virtue is persecuted by the wicked more than it is loved by the good.
We do tend to gravitate toward the bad, hey? In some ways, the story also reminds me of John Knowles's, A Separate Peace...story of two boys (I think they are mid-teens) during the war years, the big war, the war to end all war...or the one after, who can keep them straight anymore. But in Knowles's story, Gene & Phineas, w/o benefit of the lack of adult supervision, safe within the boundaries of their community, play all manner of rough games, preparing themselves for war, seems to me. We, too, as boys, played all manner of games, almost in the same fashion as the boys on the island...we fashioned spears from branches we collected in the nearby woods (our four-gable schoolhouse backed up to the woods on one side) and we fashioned red sandstone points for tips. We didn't go to the lengths as the boys on the island...but we were just a breath away.

Would the story have been different w/boys & girls...or just girls? Yes...but only after a fashion. Take a cue from any reality television show where such a scenario exists...one bachelor and twenty-five women...or vice versa. Survivor...another...it's not much of a stretch of the imagination to believe the story would have only differed by degrees.
I read A Separate Peace this year for school. I hadn't thought of it in relation to Lord of the Flies but, now that you mention it, I can see the relation.
 

AnnaRose

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2013
110
650
27
California
...I have you beat honey... I'm a cynical pessimist...BUT...I still believe that in more than we can imagine-are human souls with the light of good...boys AND girls?...uber-violent...sex drive does ugly things to a boys souls, especially one that has become unfettered from societal norms and expectations...and I agree with Staro about the ladies...
Things would definitely get crazy with boys and girls...but all girls...it might take longer to get to that violent of a level, but it would get there eventually. At least if I was on the island...
 

AnnaRose

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2013
110
650
27
California
I read it recently because I never had. It was good, not great. I think the savagery came on a bit too fast, but it rings true in a lot of ways. While the story was good, I can't really say that I liked it. Glad I read it though.
Interesting. I though the savagery was eased into quite well.
I tend to find anything stranded/lost themed interesting.
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
44,082
175,641
New Zealand
I'm currently teaching this to thirty fifteen year-olds. They aren't loving it. The only things they love are the related texts that are more modern - like Survivor. Stupid diluted culture!

Edit: AND AND AND. The next time one of them calls it Lord of the Rings, they are getting a detention. Haha.
:biggrin2: kids!
 
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