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29% of American Adults are Scientifically Illiterate

Discussion in 'Other Hot Topics' started by Jordan, Apr 29, 2014.


Do vaccines cause autism?

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
  2. No

    39 vote(s)
  1. blunthead

    blunthead Well-Known Member

    This is why I avoid using cleansers which advertise that they kill 99.8% of germs.
  2. Cristian M

    Cristian M Well-Known Member

    Ooblock , thiaooubans like you are immune to viruses , coffee and high stress ;)
    skimom2 and Neesy like this.
  3. SusanNorton

    SusanNorton Beatle Groupie

    I am so torn about this at the present. My daughter's 14 and still hasn't had the vaccination. I have no problem with her receiving most vaccines, but this one scares me for some reason. It's just a gut feeling. Maybe it's because it's so new? I had some medical issues due to a nausea drug my mother took while pregnant, so I'm wary about "new" drugs and vaccines. I worry - what if my daughter was one of the girls who had a really bad reaction? I couldn't live with myself.
  4. Moderator

    Moderator Ms. Mod Administrator

    Completely understand as when I first heard about the vaccine I wasn't sure I would have gone for it (my daughters were already past the age for getting the vaccine when it came out). What's changed my mind is that I have a daughter who has now had a couple pap smears come back positive for HPV. It's cleared up on its own but chances are she's now in a higher risk category and the vaccine may have prevented it from happening.
  5. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going

    What the News Isn’t Saying About Vaccine-Autism Studies | Sharyl Attkisson
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Webmaster-at-Large Administrator Moderator

    Since it is impossible to prove a negative, a study will never show that vaccines don't cause autism. However, every well-conducted study done to date has not shown a causal link between vaccinations an autism. If one does and its findings and data are duplicatable, I'll believe vaccines cause autism. At this time, all empirical evidence shows no causation.
    Neesy, Grandpa and Dana Jean like this.
  7. Grandpa

    Grandpa Well-Known Member

    The recent measles outbreak thanks the unsupported aversion to vaccination.
    Neesy, Todash, Jordan and 1 other person like this.
  8. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going

    What the News Isn’t Saying About Vaccine-Autism Studies | Sharyl Attkisson
    I don't have a dog in this fight...simply sharing information. Thank you for all the work you do here, Jordan...you are under-appreciated. Attkisson's analysis and commentary includes information worth sharing, information that tells me there is more than "only one (poorly conducted and discredited) study" related to the issue. I said at the get-go that I don't know...I might have said I wished there was more than a yes/no option on this survey. I don't know how easy it would be to "prove" conclusively one way or another, but I suspect it is well-nigh impossible with the tools scientists have to prove a correlation. I don't understand, either, why many seem to want to suit up with armor over the issue and mount fast horses to joust...I can see why pharmaceutical companies have a stake in the matter. The conflict of interest over the latest study is information, as well.
  9. Jordan

    Jordan Webmaster-at-Large Administrator Moderator

    What's worth considering when it comes to a pharmaceutical stake is the value of vaccines vs the value of hospitalizations. One measles hospitalization results in about $30k worth of billing while one vaccine results in about $100 in billing.

    Correlation is easy, causation is hard. ;)
    Spurious Correlations
    Grandpa likes this.
  10. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going

    True that. Might put a pinch on my pocketbook. I think what I object to here is the notion that parental concern equates to scientific illiteracy. I've said here in this thread that I received vaccinations...I was a kid...the only problem I had with it was the needles...we did get to see the "library" at this old four-gable schoolhouse where I started out...in between chopping logs for railroad ties. Attkisson includes enough information in her piece to suggest that parental concern does not equal illiteracy...caution seems called for. I don't know when they stopped vaccinating children in school...like I said here, I received vaccinations. Perhaps something in between, in the manufacturing process was faulty? I don't know. Do you conclude that all of the various studies Attkisson lists in brief are...bad/wrong? I tried to look at the original link but it doesn't exist anymore...don't recall exactly what it said
  11. Todash

    Todash Free spirit. Curly girl. Cookie eater. Proud SJW.

    It's a public health issue. As Grandpa said, the measles outbreaks were largely caused by this non-vaccination stance. And even if vaccines caused autism, which they don't, measles kills people. Autism doesn't.
  12. Todash

    Todash Free spirit. Curly girl. Cookie eater. Proud SJW.

    Language warning:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2015
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Webmaster-at-Large Administrator Moderator

    There is a hierarchy to the weight of scientific data, and what she cites are studies which have far less weight than systematic review and meta-analyses. The sum total of both in regards to vaccinations show a 0.003% chance of severe adverse reactions such as death or brain damage. Looking at just one vaccine-preventable disease (measles), there is a significantly higher risk of severe reaction or death (5%) than for the vaccine.

    Science always comes down to a numbers game, and that is why meta-analyses and systematic reviews carry more weight than a cohort study. It's also why the risks of vaccine preventable disease are great than the risks of the vaccines. Once you factor in things like the immunocompromised and those too young or sick to receive the vaccinations, it becomes very clear in my mind why it is important to vaccinate all who can receive them.

    Understanding Research Study Designs | Bio-Medical Library | University of Minnesota
    Todash, Walter Oobleck and FlakeNoir like this.
  14. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going

    Does anyone know why they stopped vaccinating children during school hours? Maybe they still do in places? I remember a variety of vaccinations...polio probably, maybe something they squirted into our open mouth, shots...don't recall what they were for. I might have something in a box in the basement, a record of vaccinations...vaguely recall coming across something like that at one point. Boot camp we were given all manner of shots...our A-shots...B-shots...maybe there was a group of C-shots and again other than the shot of penicillin in the butt, don't recall specifics. One guy turned green...we're lining up outside afterward...and Lewis...still remember his name, had an allergic reaction and one or two guys come running out and gave him something else and that was it...whatever they gave him countered the penicillin he was allergic too.
    Spideyman and FlakeNoir like this.
  15. FlakeNoir

    FlakeNoir Beta Tester Moderator

    The majority of vaccinations are given pre-school in our country so are given by a nurse at our family doctor's clinic. But the booster shots are all still given at school. (& yes, the Polio was an oral vaccination)
    Spideyman likes this.
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Webmaster-at-Large Administrator Moderator

    It sounds like Lewis had an anaphylactic reaction. They probably gave him epinephrine.
    Neesy and Spideyman like this.
  17. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going


    a quote used in Hearts in Atlantis...actually, not in, but before story...along with one from Golding's Lord of the Flies...that ends with the line, They assured Simon that everything was a bad business...plus the one from Easy Rider, We blew it.

    Number 6: What do you want?
    Number 2: Information
    Number 6: Whose side are you on?
    Number 2: That would be telling. We want information.
    Number 6: You won't get it!
    Number 2: By hook or by crook...we will
    --The Prisoner

    Too, the paradox is there...corporate America is out to screw all...or how's it go? All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others? Tell the deejay to put on The Chicken Song...you put your left foot in! you put your left foot out!
  18. mal

    mal Well-Known Member

    Wow 39%. That's like 50%.
    Holly Gibney, danie and PatInTheHat like this.
  19. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going

    CDC blocks testimony of vaccine whistleblower | Sharyl Attkisson

    but! it's poetry in motion!

    and failed me in geometry
    when she's dancing next to me
    "blinding me with science, science!"
    i can hear machinery
    "blinding me with science, science!"
    it's poetry in motion

    "the general public has long been divided into two parts; those who think science can do anything and those who are afraid it will."
    --thomas pynchon, mason & dixon

    no amish involved.
    mal and GNTLGNT like this.
  20. hossenpepper

    hossenpepper Don't worry. I have a permit!!!

    Perhaps a reply from a fellow Libertarian on this matter can help...
    mal and GNTLGNT like this.

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