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skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,683
92,168
USA
Americans are an enigma. Their govt is one of the most hated internally and externally and this reflects negatively on how Americans are viewed by rest of planet. I also believe the planet culture is not one-dimensional and to have a complete / better view, one should study American, Russian and Chinese cultures, not just American one.

Bully for you-lol. Not sure how welcoming Russia or China are, but why don't you give them a try and let us know?
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
Americans are an enigma. Their govt is one of the most hated internally and externally and this reflects negatively on how Americans are viewed by rest of planet. I also believe the planet culture is not one-dimensional and to have a complete / better view, one should study American, Russian and Chinese cultures, not just American one.

Why limit it to just studying those three? Power itself is a one-dimensional view and limiting what you call "planet culture" to what most perceive as the world's remaining super powers is by definition one-dimensional. I'm not being contrary just to be contrary. It is important to point out this flaw in logic because it goes to the heart of why Americans are currently hated. It was not always so (externally at least). There is a perception that we are on top currently. It is a perception that we like to entertain ourselves, but then again all cultures prefer to think that way about themselves. Human beings like to cheer for the underdog (and they always view themselves and their own culture as such). Do you see the contradiction? People, as a group(s), always see themselves (and their own culture) as best, and yet they also see themselves as the underdog. Whenever that perception is challenged, people tend to utilize defense mechanisms to defend their own personal bias. Among these perceptions is a visceral, negative reaction. In short, whatever country is perceived as being "on top" by the whole of humanity will automatically trigger a negative response from the rest. That isn't to say the United States doesn't do things which deserve condemnation. All nations are made by people and human nature tends to trend toward self serving behavior. I am merely pointing out that the level of negative reaction to the United States comes far more from a natural reaction to challenging innate personal bias than anything else. The United States would get this reaction even if she always behaved like a Saint.
 
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Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
I didn't mean visiting them. They don't keep their books secret. We can read their best authors.

Actually, you can't. Their best authors might never see the light of day. China still employs censorship against its own people in regards to anything which it feels is subversive or threatens government power. The people within China can't even access the same things we do on the internet. We may never even know who their best authors are or were due to their system. I am not judging them; I am merely pointing out a fact. Russia, of course, doesn't employ the same level of censorship anymore but it is still there at a moderate, effective level.

Authors are artists and great artists need breathing room to function. They can create in a constricted atmosphere but the very effort might just kill (or imprison) them. Naturally, many brave artists will move forward despite this situation, but an even greater number will be quashed. Hence, it is a given that we will never know of some great artists from certain nations simply by virtue of the nature of their government's rule.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
Yes, it's worth touring US for 2-3 years in a row to see all nature corners. I wonder if US gives such a tourist Visa, how much would the trip cost and how safe it is from humans attack (thugs, charlatans, psychopaths). I fear much less attacks from wild animals.

I suspect we do as tourism is just as much a part of our economy as it is of other nations. Safety is a relative thing. Most of us get through our lives here safely. :D Most tourists who come here are safe too. The problem is perception, i.e. the Geraldo Effect. Let me explain how that works. The media functions on the idea that "if it bleeds it leads" and thus most attention is paid to the BAD NEWS. It skews perceptions in that the only thing people hear about is what went wrong. Entertainment and Journalism both share a love of extremes. Stories are driven by conflict and normal, mundane life doesn't sell. Consider if you will that the average American Police officer might draw his weapon once on average in the line of duty during his/her entire career. Watching the news or entertainments makes it sound very different. :D In short, all nations are viewed through a series of Fun House Mirrors which show us grossly distorted pictures of reality. If you look into them long enough you forget they are Fun House Mirrors and start to accept the image they portray. Thus, while millions of foreign tourists come to the United States safely every year, the only ones people think or hear about are the ones who come to a bad end. It leads people, like yourself, to wonder how safe you would be here. The simple answer is you would be as safe here as anywhere else.
 

Cristian M

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
184
456
47
Bucharest, Romania
Actually, you can't. Their best authors might never see the light of day. China still employs censorship against its own people in regards to anything which it feels is subversive or threatens government power. The people within China can't even access the same things we do on the internet. We may never even know who their best authors are or were due to their system. I am not judging them; I am merely pointing out a fact. Russia, of course, doesn't employ the same level of censorship anymore but it is still there at a moderate, effective level.

Authors are artists and great artists need breathing room to function. They can create in a constricted atmosphere but the very effort might just kill (or imprison) them. Naturally, many brave artists will move forward despite this situation, but an even greater number will be quashed. Hence, it is a given that we will never know of some great artists from certain nations simply by virtue of the nature of their government's rule.
Yes, there is censorship, but for starters you can read books written in 19th century. Those are less likely to be censored.
Even Mr. King's books used to be banned (and maybe some still are) in various parts of US , schools and libraries.
SK also applies self-censorship, for example he will not reprint Bachman's Rage (which is very similar to Columbine incident).
Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath was also banned in some places in US, even until 1970s, 80s, 90s (that sounds crazy to me, considering the cultural products are allowed to be more and more bold in modern times).
Banned Books Awareness: “The Grapes of Wrath” | Banned Books Awareness

Same website , on some of SK's work:
Banned Books Awareness: “Different Seasons” | Banned Books Awareness
 
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Cristian M

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
184
456
47
Bucharest, Romania
Why limit it to just studying those three? Power itself is a one-dimensional view and limiting what you call "planet culture" to what most perceive as the world's remaining super powers is by definition one-dimensional. I'm not being contrary just to be contrary. It is important to point out this flaw in logic because it goes to the heart of why Americans are currently hated. It was not always so (externally at least). There is a perception that we are on top currently. It is a perception that we like to entertain ourselves, but then again all cultures prefer to think that way about themselves. Human beings like to cheer for the underdog (and they always view themselves and their own culture as such). Do you see the contradiction? People, as a group(s), always see themselves (and their own culture) as best, and yet they also see themselves as the underdog. Whenever that perception is challenged, people tend to utilize defense mechanisms to defend their own personal bias. Among these perceptions is a visceral, negative reaction. In short, whatever country is perceived as being "on top" by the whole of humanity will automatically trigger a negative response from the rest. That isn't to say the United States doesn't do things which deserve condemnation. All nations are made by people and human nature tends to trend toward self serving behavior. I am merely pointing out that the level of negative reaction to the United States comes far more from a natural reaction to challenging innate personal bias than anything else. The United States would get this reaction even if she always behaved like a Saint.
It's a first step. You go from one dimension (US) to three (US, Russia, China) and then you can add more dimensions :) (Scandinavia, France, Italy, Spain, etc).
 
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Moderator

Ms. Mod
Administrator
Jul 10, 2006
52,243
157,324
Maine
Yes, there is censorship, but for starters you can read books written in 19th century. Those are less likely to be censored.
Even Mr. King's books used to be banned (and maybe some still are) in various parts of US , schools and libraries.
SK also applies self-censorship, for example he will not reprint Bachman's Rage (which is very similar to Columbine incident).
Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath was also banned in some places in US, even until 1970s, 80s, 90s (that sounds crazy to me, considering the cultural products are allowed to be more and more bold in modern times).
Banned Books Awareness: “The Grapes of Wrath” | Banned Books Awareness

Same website , on some of SK's work:
Banned Books Awareness: “Different Seasons” | Banned Books Awareness
Banned does not mean the books are no longer available to the public at large which is an important distinction. Even Rage can still be found on the secondary market. It is not a matter of the US government saying the books will not be available to all its citizens. Yes, there are isolated locations where local groups have been able to prevent the book from being available in schools--most often for younger children than high school age--but that is a far cry from making them unavailable (banned) in all locations.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
Banned does not mean the books are no longer available to the public at large which is an important distinction. Even Rage can still be found on the secondary market. It is not a matter of the US government saying the books will not be available to all its citizens. Yes, there are isolated locations where local groups have been able to prevent the book from being available in schools--most often for younger children than high school age--but that is a far cry from making them unavailable (banned) in all locations.

Ms. Mod beat me to it. There is a difference between a book banned entirely by a government under pain of incarceration, and one being slightly more difficult to get, i.e. you have to go to the book store or a different library. :D American censorship is funny because it censors nothing. It is generally just lip service to one or another crazy organizations who spin their wheels. In the United States you can get access to anything and everything with modest effort. Nobody is going to put you in jail for it either.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
It's a first step. You go from one dimension (US) to three (US, Russia, China) and then you can add more dimensions :) (Scandinavia, France, Italy, Spain, etc).

I'm all for exposure and the study of cultures besides one's own. I just find it odd that you based your order on a perception of power. Cultural value has little to do, historically, with power. For my own part, when I decide to start studying a new culture, I pick it randomly. This is to prevent my own natural bias and interests from blinding me to some really interesting things I might not have otherwise ever learned. I do this with books, music, and movies from time to time also. I just pick one off the shelf and take a chance. The worst thing that can happen is I put t down or turn it off. :D
 
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Cristian M

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2014
184
456
47
Bucharest, Romania
I'm all for exposure and the study of cultures besides one's own. I just find it odd that you based your order on a perception of power. Cultural value has little to do, historically, with power. For my own part, when I decide to start studying a new culture, I pick it randomly. This is to prevent my own natural bias and interests from blinding me to some really interesting things I might not have otherwise ever learned. I do this with books, music, and movies from time to time also. I just pick one off the shelf and take a chance. The worst thing that can happen is I put t down or turn it off. :D
I agree. Regarding Russia and China , we're not in the 1950s anymore and I believe their govts would ban mainly the books that explicitly criticize govt and the Party. I doubt they are as paranoid as decades ago , scrutinizing books that might contain subtle and subversive messages.