Discussing the book... Spoilers

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Tery

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Apr 12, 2006
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He should just separate politics and his novels because you read to escape the political drama of the world.

Impossible. Politics and its repercussions always affect the world. How on earth can you build a character with depth unless s/he has some kind of opinion? If a story is set in the real world, there is no avoiding it. Considering how women are seen by a great many male politicians and how this book deals with women, it is pertinent.
 

FlakeNoir

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Apr 11, 2006
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I have a question but don't read it unless you're like halfway through the novel.

Evie said she was an emissary but she wouldn't say from where. Who do y'all think sent her? For a while I was trying to relate the moths to dead lights but later I thought the "test" was something the leatherheads might think was fun.
Ack! :biggrin2:
(somebody please let me know if our girl NBNP is actually organising WWIII... ;;D )
 

ShadowNinja88

Member
Oct 5, 2017
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Impossible. Politics and its repercussions always affect the world. How on earth can you build a character with depth unless s/he has some kind of opinion? If a story is set in the real world, there is no avoiding it. Considering how women are seen by a great many male politicians and how this book deals with women, it is pertinent.

Politics in terms of character development/plot development would be fine but what i'm talking about is something like when King said
"they were just another bunch of trumped-up tax dodgers, emphasis on Trump." "Tiffany would ask herself, is so and so a bigger **** than Truman?. Few Would compare, in fact, so far, officially there was only Donald Trump and cannibals"
That is from beginning of Part 1, but that sort of stuff is unnecessary and doesn't add any character development or plot, its literally the author injecting himself into a novel that should be about his characters. That is what I think should be separated, the jabs at someone the author clearly hates that takes u out of immersion. I'd be fine if there were political undertones within the characters or even social justice topics as long as it pertained to the plot/characters though.
 

Neesy

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May 24, 2012
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Politics in terms of character development/plot development would be fine but what i'm talking about is something like when King said
"they were just another bunch of trumped-up tax dodgers, emphasis on Trump." "Tiffany would ask herself, is so and so a bigger **** than Truman?. Few Would compare, in fact, so far, officially there was only Donald Trump and cannibals"
That is from beginning of Part 1, but that sort of stuff is unnecessary and doesn't add any character development or plot, its literally the author injecting himself into a novel that should be about his characters. That is what I think should be separated, the jabs at someone the author clearly hates that takes u out of immersion. I'd be fine if there were political undertones within the characters or even social justice topics as long as it pertained to the plot/characters though.
He read that part out loud in Toronto and it got a good laugh :cool2::biggrin2:
 

Tery

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Apr 12, 2006
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Politics in terms of character development/plot development would be fine but what i'm talking about is something like when King said
"they were just another bunch of trumped-up tax dodgers, emphasis on Trump." "Tiffany would ask herself, is so and so a bigger **** than Truman?. Few Would compare, in fact, so far, officially there was only Donald Trump and cannibals"
That is from beginning of Part 1, but that sort of stuff is unnecessary and doesn't add any character development or plot, its literally the author injecting himself into a novel that should be about his characters. That is what I think should be separated, the jabs at someone the author clearly hates that takes u out of immersion. I'd be fine if there were political undertones within the characters or even social justice topics as long as it pertained to the plot/characters though.

A writer IS his characters. Every one of them are some aspect of himself. The characters who said those things feel the same as the author. Considering how divided we are on that topic, that's not too far-fetched. And, if it really bothers you that much, you can stop reading.
 

MarkS73

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Nov 24, 2014
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No problem! Yeah, I totally agree with you. And something I’m not enjoying is the really predictable, tired gender stereotypes. For a ‘progressive’ novel (see the dedication to Sandra Bland, the Mitch McConnell quote, etc.) exploring humanity and the way the two genders interact, it sure clings pretty hard to gender stereotypes straight out of old TV sitcoms.

.

This is exactly my problem with the book. The 50's way of thinking about the difference between men and women. 150 pages to go, i'll probably finish the book this weekend but it really is getting annoying. All the men in the book are egotistic alpha males or drunks or have agrression issues, and all the women are in some way a victim of men. It's 2017, who still thinks like that? That, and there is not one character i like and that i'm rooting for., the women are all really annoying with their complaining about men and the men in the book are even worse, there are so many ways the whole situation could be dealt with but it just isn't happening because no one is talking in any sensible way with each other, so it just keeps draggin on...

It still quite an achievement though, despite all my annoyences it's still a page turner. It rarely happens that i finish a massive book like this in little over a week... :)
 

ShadowNinja88

Member
Oct 5, 2017
7
22
I finally finished it. Meh. Good story but I have a hard time with Owens wordy style. JMO please don't light the torches or grab any pitchforks LOL

Owens "wordy" style? I never read(or knew Owen King wrote) so I don't know his style or what genre he writes but Stephen king is definitely more the wordy style of writing xD , which was mostly a turn off for me before but now im starting to get used to his gauntlet of description for every single little thing and going back in time randomly then returning to the present. I'm almost to part 2 and only hard time with wordiness was in the beginning and i thought that was just Stephen Kings style so i jus got used to it. Idk how to tell between each of their styles tho
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
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Owens "wordy" style? I never read(or knew Owen King wrote) so I don't know his style or what genre he writes but Stephen king is definitely more the wordy style of writing xD , which was mostly a turn off for me before but now im starting to get used to his gauntlet of description for every single little thing and going back in time randomly then returning to the present. I'm almost to part 2 and only hard time with wordiness was in the beginning and i thought that was just Stephen Kings style so i jus got used to it. Idk how to tell between each of their styles tho
...they edited and sometimes re-wrote each other's parts, so ultimately they can't even tell their "voices" apart.....curious though how you came to determine Steve was the more "wordy" of the two if you've never even looked at anything Owen's written?????....seems rather cavalier and unfair....
 

Lynn Diblase

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Oct 8, 2017
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Impossible. Politics and its repercussions always affect the world. How on earth can you build a character with depth unless s/he has some kind of opinion? If a story is set in the real world, there is no avoiding it. Considering how women are seen by a great many male politicians and how this book deals with women, it is pertinent.
I would like to know where/how they got the women's view in this book. Seems scary/accurate.
 

Tery

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Apr 12, 2006
15,304
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This is exactly my problem with the book. The 50's way of thinking about the difference between men and women. 150 pages to go, i'll probably finish the book this weekend but it really is getting annoying. All the men in the book are egotistic alpha males or drunks or have agrression issues, and all the women are in some way a victim of men. It's 2017, who still thinks like that? That, and there is not one character i like and that i'm rooting for., the women are all really annoying with their complaining about men and the men in the book are even worse, there are so many ways the whole situation could be dealt with but it just isn't happening because no one is talking in any sensible way with each other, so it just keeps draggin on...

Hmmm... mayhap this story is a metaphor for something. I just can't put my finger on it.... :eyebrow::hammer::biggrin2:
 

Spideyman

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Jul 10, 2006
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This is exactly my problem with the book. The 50's way of thinking about the difference between men and women. 150 pages to go, i'll probably finish the book this weekend but it really is getting annoying. All the men in the book are egotistic alpha males or drunks or have agrression issues, and all the women are in some way a victim of men. It's 2017, who still thinks like that? That, and there is not one character i like and that i'm rooting for., the women are all really annoying with their complaining about men and the men in the book are even worse, there are so many ways the whole situation could be dealt with but it just isn't happening because no one is talking in any sensible way with each other, so it just keeps draggin on...

It still quite an achievement though, despite all my annoyences it's still a page turner. It rarely happens that i finish a massive book like this in little over a week... :)
Not even Molly?
 

Tery

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Apr 12, 2006
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Seriously :) Want to know the answer. Seems too accurate from the female perspective for it to be written by 2 men...

Well, there's Tabby of course. And Ms. Mod. And I think Uncle Stevie has been paying attention for the last several decades. Part of being a writer is research and that includes talking to people who have similarities to your characters. Face it, they are just great writers.