Group Discussion III: The Stand (40th Anniversary)

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Doc Creed

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Maybe another non-biblical allusion, but could Randall Flagg be somewhat inspired by Charles Manson? It’s a loose idea, but they both had darkly charismatic personalities that allowed them to gain followers to help carry out some dark motive. Manson also kind of saw himself as some kind of prophet of the apocalypse, which is essentially what RF is. Also adding to it are the buttons on RF’s denim jacket, especially the one with the pig on it, “Eat your Pork” I think the quote on it was, I say this because Manson had some ideology that The Beatles were the horseman of the apocalypse or something, and had his own crazy interpretations of some of the white album songs, namely Piggies, which I’m pretty sure was one of the ones that was quoted in the blood of the innocent victims he told his followers to murder. Helter Skelter was also published in the 70’s, and King probably read it.
I can certainly see the comparison. Hmmm.
 

Coolallosaurus

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May 20, 2018
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Yes, exactly. I rooted for Lloyd's redemption even more than I did for Harold's. :(
Speaking of Harold- didn't Stu find his body and bury it (him)?

Have you ever read A Confederacy of Dunces? Harold reminded me SO much of Ignatius, the bloated, pompous academic.

Yeah, Lloyd seemed salvageable, especially pre-Captain Trips when he seemed to just be going along for the ride with Poke. There were so many points where he might have been redeemed. It seems both sad, yet realistic, that he never found any of those paths.
 

Doc Creed

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Have you ever read A Confederacy of Dunces? Harold reminded me SO much of Ignatius, the bloated, pompous academic.

Yeah, Lloyd seemed salvageable, especially pre-Captain Trips when he seemed to just be going along for the ride with Poke. There were so many points where he might have been redeemed. It seems both sad, yet realistic, that he never found any of those paths.
Oh, yes, I'm familiar with that book but I never read it. It has a big reputation down here.
 

Wayoftheredpanda

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May 15, 2018
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Definitely! Also got some Jim Jones vibes which is creepy since The Stand came before Jonestown (in fact, doesn't King write about that in Danse Macabre maybe?)
Yeah, Las Vegas definitely did become a Jonestown of sorts. The Explosion that kills everyone there is similar to the mass suicide by poisoned Kool-aid
 

Doc Creed

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Have you ever read A Confederacy of Dunces? Harold reminded me SO much of Ignatius, the bloated, pompous academic.

Yeah, Lloyd seemed salvageable, especially pre-Captain Trips when he seemed to just be going along for the ride with Poke. There were so many points where he might have been redeemed. It seems both sad, yet realistic, that he never found any of those paths.
I think Lloyd getting drunk in his hotel room was an indication he knew his loyalty to Flagg was leading him nowhere. Except to damnation. Like Nadine, I think he probably thought he deserved his fate.
 

Coolallosaurus

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Yeah, Las Vegas definitely did become a Jonestown of sorts. The Explosion that kills everyone there is similar to the mass suicide by poisoned Kool-aid

Quick amendment: Danse Macabre King talks about the Patty Hearst kindnapping influencing him. Jim Jones comes from his discussion of James Herbert's The Fog (which pre-dated Jonestown). None the less, the similarities with cults and Flagg's charisma are definitely there.
 

Doc Creed

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Do you think there's any symbolic significance that Stu gave Harold's body some decency (i.e. removing the gun), but not full burial rights?
Good question...I don't know. Too much effort? They hadn't eaten much in days. Exhaustion, maybe? If it had been Nick or Frannie I'm sure it would have been different.

BTW, I should clarify something. Nadine didn't kill herself, but she goaded Flagg into killing her (pushing her off the balcony). I think he threw her.
 

Wayoftheredpanda

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Good question...I don't know. Too much effort? They hadn't eaten much in days. Exhaustion, maybe? If it had been Nick or Frannie I'm sure it would have been different.

BTW, I should clarify something. Nadine didn't kill herself, but she goaded Flagg into killing her (pushing her off the balcony). I think he threw her.
He did yeah, he threw her right off in a fit of rage.
 

Coolallosaurus

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I wanted Lloyd to have more “screen-time”. He was an interesting character but super underused outside of his little predicament in the jail cell. I wanted to see the beginnings of the Randall gang, and how Lloyd adjusted to his somewhat administrative position.

Agreed! I would have loved to replace a lot of the Free Zone building with Vegas (if I were speaking of the book on a purely entertainment level). I imagine it might have looked a bit like Biff's timeline in Back to the Future II
 

Coolallosaurus

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I wanted to find a quote and Googled The Stand. Poor Google Books preview has mis-linked The Stand with what looks like a rom-com called The Stand-In. The correct info for The Stand is there, but the cover image is from the other book, and When you click the preview it takes you to the a preview for The Stand-In. Anyone else getting this? If so, and it's a wider issue with Google, some readers are in for a surprise :D .
 

Coolallosaurus

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May 20, 2018
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It's somehow appropriate we ended our journey in January, just as Stu and Tom made it back to Boulder in January.

Joe/Leo Rockway...was anything said about him at the end? I must have missed it.

His last appearance is at the May Day celebration with Tom, right? He seems like a happy, healthy kid again although, I imagine losing Larry must have been tough.
 

Wayoftheredpanda

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Rabbits seem to be a bit of a theme. One big part of Lloyd’s character was his regret over forgetting to feed his childhood pet and leaving it to die trying to chew it’s way out, it really humanized him and it came back to haunt him. And I remember Stu thought of his situation in the hospital like that of going “tharn” in Richard Addam’s iconic rabbit novel, Watership Down. Not to mention rabbits are used for medical and scientific testings, and Stu among others were test subjects for the disease at the hospital place. Also you could describe the characters in the stand as going “down the rabbit hole”. I don’t think rabbits were really supposed to be an important theme, just something I noticed.
 

Wayoftheredpanda

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Agreed! I would have loved to replace a lot of the Free Zone building with Vegas (if I were speaking of the book on a purely entertainment level). I imagine it might have looked a bit like Biff's timeline in Back to the Future II
Yeah, the politics stuff in the free zone really dragged on, definitely could’ve been used to build up some non “main cast of heroes” characters.