Jerome's Jive

[skimom2]

It reads to me much like the clunky tech references in Mr. Mercedes-anachronistic. We 'get it' because we're of the age to have had more direct contact with that sort of dialect. I maintain that even if Jerome was well versed in cultural history (and I'm not so sure he would be, at least this aspect), it would not be part of his personal cultural lexicon. That would have been shaped in a later era. I have no issue with it coming from the mouth of a 40 and up, or if the story was set in the 70s or 80s, but not for a young person today. We'll have to agree to disagree

 

[GNTLGNT]

It reads to me much like the clunky tech references in Mr. Mercedes-anachronistic. We 'get it' because we're of the age to have had more direct contact with that sort of dialect. I maintain that even if Jerome was well versed in cultural history (and I'm not so sure he would be, at least this aspect), it would not be part of his personal cultural lexicon. That would have been shaped in a later era. I have no issue with it coming from the mouth of a 40 and up, or if the story was set in the 70s or 80s, but not for a young person today. We'll have to agree to disagree

...sorry girl...had to giggle over this whole Jerome thing and your brilliant breakdown of same...why?(as her eyebrow arches to the stars and her lip begins to quiver)because it reminded me of the scene in I believe it was Airplane-where the lady volunteers to help cuz she speaks jive...

 

[do1you9love?]

...sorry girl...had to giggle over this whole Jerome thing and your brilliant breakdown of same...why?(as her eyebrow arches to the stars and her lip begins to quiver)because it reminded me of the scene in I believe it was Airplane-where the lady volunteers to help cuz she speaks jive...

Not just a lady, she was the Beav's mom!

I still feel that this is going to be a big part of the Grand Finale. And I do understand that this is a big point of contention for many fans, so I apologize in advance if I am right.

 

[Dana Jean]

It reads to me much like the clunky tech references in Mr. Mercedes-anachronistic. We 'get it' because we're of the age to have had more direct contact with that sort of dialect. I maintain that even if Jerome was well versed in cultural history (and I'm not so sure he would be, at least this aspect), it would not be part of his personal cultural lexicon. That would have been shaped in a later era. I have no issue with it coming from the mouth of a 40 and up, or if the story was set in the 70s or 80s, but not for a young person today. We'll have to agree to disagree

Oh for sure, but again, I think it is was more about the age of who Jerome was talking to than Jerome's actual age. If he was speaking to younger people, I think he would've used the rap references of today.

 

[skimom2]

Oh for sure, but again, I think it is was more about the age of who Jerome was talking to than Jerome's actual age. If he was speaking to younger people, I think he would've used the rap references of today.

Mebbe so

 

[Walter Oobleck]

I figured he was being the stereo-typical black guy...playing it up some...and seems like there's a kind of validity in that because we know he can "talk" like a "normal" person. Reminds me of a scene in a Koontz story...incredible cat...Mungo-jerrie maybe...and an incredible dog...Rocky maybe...or was it Einstein? Both animals at one time, sitting there with the humans, and the animals play the part of the stereo-typical dog and cat...the dog growls, shows teeth...the cat goes eeeeek! back raised. Have seen it before...in the movie Fletch...Chevy Chase and the black guy, who is really an Effa-Bee-Eye agent. Great movie...there's that scene where they're both wearing sheets? Hollering at the house? Or how about that western...the Detroit Linebacker was in it...slaps a horse? Yeah, how thoughtless and not-correct...but I think the same black actor was in that one...who was it, Sam Peckinpah? Who brings to mind the coffin hunters...same kind of scene...black guy saying yes masser so forth so on...playing the stereo-typical black guy. That hand-cart? Heh! They're both in quick-sand...they rescue the handcart? Jack Benny...your money or your life...long pause. Cue the laughter.

Alex Karras...that's the guy...just came to me, Detroit.

 

[not_nadine]

I did not like it, I did not hate it. I agree with Skimom. It did not work for me in the time the book was set in. For me anyway. Gotta twitch. I guess it's the PC times we are forced to live in.

Funny sure.

It reminded me of Detta too. That dialogue worked for that time period. I read it years after and shook my head how people talked then. Including me, probably.

But that is why I love SK, from the first book I ever read all those years ago. (he curses! he is funny and then scary!)

He knows people and he writes characters we think as real.

 

[GNTLGNT]

Not just a lady, she was the Beav's mom!

I still feel that this is going to be a big part of the Grand Finale. And I do understand that this is a big point of contention for many fans, so I apologize in advance if I am right.

...that's right...almost forgot!!!....

 

[Dana Jean]

Mebbe so

I was also thinking, that he was wanting to come off as the "subservient" stereotype of the 50s, and rap dialect wouldn't fit that at all. THat is a more angry, in your face, here-is-my opinion type voice, it wouldn't have worked.

 

[mjs9153]

I was also thinking, that he was wanting to come off as the "subservient" stereotype of the 50s, and rap dialect wouldn't fit that at all. THat is a more angry, in your face, here-is-my opinion type voice, it wouldn't have worked.

Huh?What do the fifties have to do with it DJ,the books are set in the late 2000's.Did I miss something,did Jerome indicate that was the origin period of the character?

 

[Neesy]

My problem with it is that it's anachronistic. I have a son the same age as Jerome and he has a mixed bag of friends (pretty much every race is represented); we all all lower middle income. I read one Jerome section from Mr. Mercedes to them and asked them what they thought. To a man, they looked at me like I was crazy. No one had heard anything like that in real life. It's a throwback to the 70s, which itself was harkening back to the vaudevillian blackface stereotype. Kids now have little frame of reference for the type of slang Jerome uses. And Jerome is very definitely upper middle to upper class, meaning he'd likely have even less frame of reference than the boys I asked (they, at least, have a strong understanding of 90s to modern hip-hop slang--lol). KWIM? If Jerome was using the aforementioned hip-hop slang, that would make sense--it's in his age-appropriate grasp.

Perhaps Jerome read the Bobbsey Twins series of books at one time? There was a black maid who spoke like that and I read those books simply because they were left behind at a cottage that my Dad had bought.

They had been a bit smoke damaged, but I loved reading that entire series.

 

[Dana Jean]

Huh?What do the fifties have to do with it DJ,the books are set in the late 2000's.Did I miss something,did Jerome indicate that was the origin period of the character?

No no no. He was using that subservient talk from the 50s talking to a man who was around in the 50s and would understand the verbiage.

 

[GNTLGNT]

No no no. He was using that subservient talk from the 50s talking to a man who was around in the 50s and would understand the verbiage.

...Whoomp....there it is!.......

 

[CodyBriscoe]

This is such a good thread. I was bugged at first by "Tyrone Feelgood Delight" but after reading everyone's thoughts, it does make a lot of sense. I have a black friend who used to do much the same thing as a joke as well. Jerome is a fascinating character, and I hope we see more of him in End of Watch.

 

[no bounce no play]

Oh for sure, but again, I think it is was more about the age of who Jerome was talking to than Jerome's actual age. If he was speaking to younger people, I think he would've used the rap references of today.

I thought Hodge's age was the factor too. I figured Jerome's Uncle Tom routine was his way of telling Hodge he was an old man - old enough to remember minstrel shows and the Jack Benny Show (Rochester was an Uncle Tom character).

 

[mal]

I think that's how they talk in Maine.

 

[Sunlight Gardener]

I never really thought to be offended by it when I first read it because he was obviously satirizing that form of speech which in itself is ridiculous in this day and age. The book makes it clear that he and is family are all highly intelligent people. I just always took it that he did the old time slave type of speech just to jerk Bill's chain whenever he asked him for a favor or wanted something.

 

[Pucker]

My problem with it is that it's anachronistic. I have a son the same age as Jerome and he has a mixed bag of friends (pretty much every race is represented); we all all lower middle income. I read one Jerome section from Mr. Mercedes to them and asked them what they thought. To a man, they looked at me like I was crazy. No one had heard anything like that in real life. It's a throwback to the 70s, which itself was harkening back to the vaudevillian blackface stereotype. Kids now have little frame of reference for the type of slang Jerome uses. And Jerome is very definitely upper middle to upper class, meaning he'd likely have even less frame of reference than the boys I asked (they, at least, have a strong understanding of 90s to modern hip-hop slang--lol). KWIM? If Jerome was using the aforementioned hip-hop slang, that would make sense--it's in his age-appropriate grasp.

Beyond the casual approach to racism this affectation implies (and let's not forget that Jerome -- for all his wonderfulness -- is still a kid), I found myself wondering this exact thing.

Where does a black kid growing up in the 21st century hear this?

What is he doing, Googling Steppinfetchit?

And if so, why?

It's a troubling aspect to the story. I find it incongruous almost to the point of taking me out of the story. The affectation appears to have no genesis and serves no purpose that I can see. It isn't funny. It isn't clever. It isn't anything that I can see, beyond obnoxious. A concerned person in a mentoring relationship with this kid would do well to set him straight.

Do any of you guys know who Stephen A. Smith is, and if so, can you imagine why I might bring the name of a guy like him into this discussion?

 

[deeda]

Hi there. I joined SKMB just so I could vent a little about how badly King does African American characters.

Before I get started though, I'll preface this by saying I've been a fan for a very long time. He's a brilliant storyteller and ironically, what I like best about his writing is how convincingly he develops characters. He imbues them with so many specific and relatable characteristics that even when they're despicable, I'm still entranced by them.

That said, he may know people, but he doesn't know African American people.

What bugged me immensely was how Jerome's "blackness" is such an essential aspect of his personality. I've been black all my life and have never been around African American people who constantly manifest their ethnicity the way King's characters do. It's a terrible stereotype.

For example, when Jerome first appears in a meeting with Hodges, King writes "[t]he young man [Jerome] meets him halfway across the lawn, one fisted hand held out. Hodges bumps knuckles with him, thus acknowledging Jerome's blackness." Why on earth does Hodges need to "acknowledge his blackness"? I don't expect anyone to give me a fist bump as an acknowledgment of my blackness and if someone did, I'd balk. And before you say it's because I'm a woman, my black husband would balk, too.

Or (and this is my favorite): "Jerome is a Harvard man these days, and his alter ego--the jive-talking Tyrone Feelgood Delight--seems to have been retired." I know lots of African Americans who have graduated from Harvard but not one who had a schizophrenic "jive-talking" alter ego in high school. If you read carefully, almost every appearance by Jerome is marked by some mention of his blackness.

And this is true for Bellamy's parole officer the very large, very black and very bald McFarland, who speaks in dialect -- at least in Bellamy's mind. In fact, when Bellamy is leaving Home Depot and some guy calls to him, he's relieved because the "voice is young. And white." Certainly McFarland could be black and not sound "black," right? Just like an East Asian guy can sound white and so can a guy from Mexico.

Now does this mean there aren't plenty of people who fit into stereotypes? Of course there are ... but why perpetuate them? In 2015 don't we have some moral/ethical/human obligation to dismantle them? Why do we stay trapped in this narrow definitions of race, gender, and ethnicity.

And what really gets me is HOW MANY PEOPLE (his editors, friends, family) cosigned on these stereotypes before the novel was published. I wonder if even ONE of them even noticed. And I also wonder if even one of them is African American.

I've always noticed this is King's work and kept sweeping it under the rug as an anomaly but it happens too often and I can't let him off the hook anymore.

I expect more from him. I demand more from him.

 

[Dana Jean]

Hi there. I joined SKMB just so I could vent a little about how badly King does African American characters.

Before I get started though, I'll preface this by saying I've been a fan for a very long time. He's a brilliant storyteller and ironically, what I like best about his writing is how convincingly he develops characters. He imbues them with so many specific and relatable characteristics that even when they're despicable, I'm still entranced by them.

That said, he may know people, but he doesn't know African American people.

What bugged me immensely was how Jerome's "blackness" is such an essential aspect of his personality. I've been black all my life and have never been around African American people who constantly manifest their ethnicity the way King's characters do. It's a terrible stereotype.

For example, when Jerome first appears in a meeting with Hodges, King writes "[t]he young man [Jerome] meets him halfway across the lawn, one fisted hand held out. Hodges bumps knuckles with him, thus acknowledging Jerome's blackness." Why on earth does Hodges need to "acknowledge his blackness"? I don't expect anyone to give me a fist bump as an acknowledgment of my blackness and if someone did, I'd balk. And before you say it's because I'm a woman, my black husband would balk, too.

Or (and this is my favorite): "Jerome is a Harvard man these days, and his alter ego--the jive-talking Tyrone Feelgood Delight--seems to have been retired." I know lots of African Americans who have graduated from Harvard but not one who had a schizophrenic "jive-talking" alter ego in high school. If you read carefully, almost every appearance by Jerome is marked by some mention of his blackness.

And this is true for Bellamy's parole officer the very large, very black and very bald McFarland, who speaks in dialect -- at least in Bellamy's mind. In fact, when Bellamy is leaving Home Depot and some guy calls to him, he's relieved because the "voice is young. And white." Certainly McFarland could be black and not sound "black," right? Just like an East Asian guy can sound white and so can a guy from Mexico.

Now does this mean there aren't plenty of people who fit into stereotypes? Of course there are ... but why perpetuate them? In 2015 don't we have some moral/ethical/human obligation to dismantle them? Why do we stay trapped in this narrow definitions of race, gender, and ethnicity.

And what really gets me is HOW MANY PEOPLE (his editors, friends, family) cosigned on these stereotypes before the novel was published. I wonder if even ONE of them even noticed. And I also wonder if even one of them is African American.

I've always noticed this is King's work and kept sweeping it under the rug as an anomaly but it happens too often and I can't let him off the hook anymore.

I expect more from him. I demand more from him.

Moved your comment to an existing thread on the topic. Read through and see what you think.