"Twelve Blunders Aspiring Writers Make" -Jack McDevitt

  • This message board permanently closed on June 30th, 2020 at 4PM EDT and is no longer accepting new members.

skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,683
92,168
USA
Wouldn't sell if there wasn't a market, Ebdim9th. As much as I get your emotion over this, best to read what you like and leave what others like to them. A book/story should be a gateway to take the reader somewhen else, and if a book works for a reader, it's done its job. Not every gateway is for everyone, but it doesn't automatically make one way better than another--they're just different. We all 'fix' in our own way. :)
 

Bryan James

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2009
5,150
7,644
South Cackalacky
Pressed for time (Walking Dead on soon), otherwise I would write a much shorter reply. (See above)

Good writing is all about meeting the reader, even if it is only yourself. Give them what they need disguised in what they want.

If you are simple, or aspire to be, you may prefer small staccato sentences. No semi;colons. Those are an editor's nightmare and only the thrill of writers that like to hear themselves click the keys. Again, if that's your bag, keep it to yourself.

A good writer does not masturbate in public. That is why long punctiouacionasly passages do not appeal to me as a reader.

The point of writing is conveying a message. Or making money, and we all know how that usually turns out. Correctly most of the time.

Tell a story. Get in and get out...and then think up a new story.

If you write for other people solely, you will never be happy in the game.
 

VultureLvr45

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
2,650
13,707
Maryland
Thank you BJ, and Skimom2, and Ebdim9th.

I often write short sentences in an attempt to be succinct. Am also trying to take 'me' out of the story.

The world is quickly changing. There is little time for meandering thought or 'mental masturbation' anymore.

I like to read 'convey' and 'get in and get out' stories. Keeping mental focus in this age of competing demands is difficult at best.

Pace is something I need to learn.
 

Ebdim9th

Dressing the Gothic interval in tritones
Jul 1, 2009
6,137
22,104
Wooden, emotionless, or shallow characters that have no sense of humor... I just don't see the point or the health to one's imagination and personal growth in wasting time on such tumbleweeds... C.S. Lewis wrote simple but profound stories for teen-agers, The Eyes of the Dragon by our own Uncle Stevie also accomplished that very well, as did Heinlein with Starman Jones, and if you can find other works by Escape From Witch Mountain author Alexander Key - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, such as The Forgotten Door, you'll see more differences between unengaging teen-audience stories and ones that make lasting personal and social impacts...
 
Last edited:

EMTP513

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2012
503
1,923
Is one of those 12 reasons referring to choosing a reasonable editor?
I had an editor who practically demanded that I write a medically correct scene in an INcorrect way just because he had no understanding of head injuries (it took me 6 months of EMT training before *I* understood it but he got on his high horse and acted as if I DIDN'T, that I was just some woeful misguided female aspiring author) and he failed to know that the skull has sutures all over the head and that along those points are the weakest in the skull's surface. Your skull will break or possible shatter (although the latter is more unlikely than the former) if you fall or someone hits you with a hard object.
You can very definitely DIE from it but he refused to listen to me and the people who worked with him acted like I was questioning the directives of some god-like entity. They told me "You have to give an editor the utmost respect" and might as well have implied: 'Translation: do everything the editor says, even when it's so wrong that you can NOT in good conscience write the scene that way.
That's when I decided I've never been a writer. It was the final dampener that smothered my desire to ever write another short story or try to sell a poem. It was the straw that broke my back.
I'm really tired of writers misrepresenting my profession and I wanted to write in order to let people know how serious it can be when a person misrepresents medical information, especially in the field of Emergency Medicine.
There's a saying that goes "Don't read health care books when you want medical advice; you might die of a misprint." And truer words were never spoken.
Because I feel so strongly about my own profession, I decided I was never going to be a writer and should stick with being an unknown, irrelevant Paramedic. An unsung hero if you want the flashy term for it.
I'm upset that I can't find an editor who will work with me about the medical scenes. I'm willing to sacrifice everything else I write: grammar, punctuation, style or tone. I don't care; as long as the medical information is TRULY realistic as opposed to "realistic because a NONmedical person says it's not true."
 

skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,683
92,168
USA
Is one of those 12 reasons referring to choosing a reasonable editor?
I had an editor who practically demanded that I write a medically correct scene in an INcorrect way just because he had no understanding of head injuries (it took me 6 months of EMT training before *I* understood it but he got on his high horse and acted as if I DIDN'T, that I was just some woeful misguided female aspiring author) and he failed to know that the skull has sutures all over the head and that along those points are the weakest in the skull's surface. Your skull will break or possible shatter (although the latter is more unlikely than the former) if you fall or someone hits you with a hard object.
You can very definitely DIE from it but he refused to listen to me and the people who worked with him acted like I was questioning the directives of some god-like entity. They told me "You have to give an editor the utmost respect" and might as well have implied: 'Translation: do everything the editor says, even when it's so wrong that you can NOT in good conscience write the scene that way.
That's when I decided I've never been a writer. It was the final dampener that smothered my desire to ever write another short story or try to sell a poem. It was the straw that broke my back.
I'm really tired of writers misrepresenting my profession and I wanted to write in order to let people know how serious it can be when a person misrepresents medical information, especially in the field of Emergency Medicine.
There's a saying that goes "Don't read health care books when you want medical advice; you might die of a misprint." And truer words were never spoken.
Because I feel so strongly about my own profession, I decided I was never going to be a writer and should stick with being an unknown, irrelevant Paramedic. An unsung hero if you want the flashy term for it.
I'm upset that I can't find an editor who will work with me about the medical scenes. I'm willing to sacrifice everything else I write: grammar, punctuation, style or tone. I don't care; as long as the medical information is TRULY realistic as opposed to "realistic because a NONmedical person says it's not true."

It's curious that a professional editor would insist upon a change in a field in which he or she is not expert, especially when the writer can show his or her research is thorough and valid. I can see asking for clarification or maybe some simplification if what is written is too complex for a layman to understand. Is that perhaps the case?
 

dsurrett

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2006
2,493
621
63
Alabama, USA
Thanks for the link. I've bookmarked it and will read it this evening. It's possible to read about writing to the exclusion of actually writing, which can become a trap to aspiring authors, but such articles do help from time to time, especially when the one who penned them knows what he (or she) knows what they're talking about.
 

VultureLvr45

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
2,650
13,707
Maryland
Is one of those 12 reasons referring to choosing a reasonable editor?
I had an editor who practically demanded that I write a medically correct scene in an INcorrect way just because he had no understanding of head injuries (it took me 6 months of EMT training before *I* understood it but he got on his high horse and acted as if I DIDN'T, that I was just some woeful misguided female aspiring author) and he failed to know that the skull has sutures all over the head and that along those points are the weakest in the skull's surface. Your skull will break or possible shatter (although the latter is more unlikely than the former) if you fall or someone hits you with a hard object.
You can very definitely DIE from it but he refused to listen to me and the people who worked with him acted like I was questioning the directives of some god-like entity. They told me "You have to give an editor the utmost respect" and might as well have implied: 'Translation: do everything the editor says, even when it's so wrong that you can NOT in good conscience write the scene that way.
That's when I decided I've never been a writer. It was the final dampener that smothered my desire to ever write another short story or try to sell a poem. It was the straw that broke my back.
I'm really tired of writers misrepresenting my profession and I wanted to write in order to let people know how serious it can be when a person misrepresents medical information, especially in the field of Emergency Medicine.
There's a saying that goes "Don't read health care books when you want medical advice; you might die of a misprint." And truer words were never spoken.
Because I feel so strongly about my own profession, I decided I was never going to be a writer and should stick with being an unknown, irrelevant Paramedic. An unsung hero if you want the flashy term for it.
I'm upset that I can't find an editor who will work with me about the medical scenes. I'm willing to sacrifice everything else I write: grammar, punctuation, style or tone. I don't care; as long as the medical information is TRULY realistic as opposed to "realistic because a NONmedical person says it's not true."
Please don't let that one editor kill your love of perfect medical processes. I am sure there has to be other needs medical textbooks or teachers of emergency medicine or paramedic emergency training materials authors. Your skills are special. What you do is very important, and has carry over to other fields (like forensics, criminology, etc).
 

Ebdim9th

Dressing the Gothic interval in tritones
Jul 1, 2009
6,137
22,104
EMPT513, take a deep breath, clear your mind of the offence, and just sit down and write the first things that come to mind. Break through the roadblock that's been thrown in your way the simplest way possible by writing through/over/past it. End the interruption to your flow of words...
 

EMTP513

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2012
503
1,923
It's curious that a professional editor would insist upon a change in a field in which he or she is not expert, especially when the writer can show his or her research is thorough and valid. I can see asking for clarification or maybe some simplification if what is written is too complex for a layman to understand. Is that perhaps the case?
He didn't tell me to clarify it. I said that the killer stabbed the victim through the head - and there's only one place on the head that can occur realistically. But I never got a chance to tell him where or how because he simply told me "there's no way that could realistically occur so don't put it in the piece." Consequently I opted to do the scene in a different, more OBVIOUS way and had the killer place a gunny sack over the victim's head and shoot him with a .45 caliber handgun.
But the editor insisted that there would be a trail of blood that people would find. Even though in the scene a downpour of a storm occurs after this happens and the gunny sack on his head would have trapped the rest of the bleeding inside sack.
I gave up at that point. I finished the course, received the degree and haven't written since then. Other than the poetry and diary I have to keep to decrease the intensity of my work. If I don't write about what I have to see I'd never be able to keep doing it.
I read more of Robin Cook's books to find out how he's managing to get medically correct scenes onto the page for his own editors, but I never figured out what he was doing to make it happen, other than that his characters, even the bad ones, have medical knowledge and mine didn't. Not the bad ones anyway.
 

VultureLvr45

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
2,650
13,707
Maryland
Emtp513... Have you read any books by Kathy Reichs? Perhaps some of the forensics divisions at one of the colleges may need some assistance. My point is don't let anyone take your exacting nature away from you. Perhaps in recreating crime scenes for court use or in other actual descriptive non-fiction contexts your concise investigative thought processes will be appreciated. Keep on being Awesome 8)
 

skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,683
92,168
USA
He didn't tell me to clarify it. I said that the killer stabbed the victim through the head - and there's only one place on the head that can occur realistically. But I never got a chance to tell him where or how because he simply told me "there's no way that could realistically occur so don't put it in the piece." Consequently I opted to do the scene in a different, more OBVIOUS way and had the killer place a gunny sack over the victim's head and shoot him with a .45 caliber handgun.
But the editor insisted that there would be a trail of blood that people would find. Even though in the scene a downpour of a storm occurs after this happens and the gunny sack on his head would have trapped the rest of the bleeding inside sack.
I gave up at that point. I finished the course, received the degree and haven't written since then. Other than the poetry and diary I have to keep to decrease the intensity of my work. If I don't write about what I have to see I'd never be able to keep doing it.
I read more of Robin Cook's books to find out how he's managing to get medically correct scenes onto the page for his own editors, but I never figured out what he was doing to make it happen, other than that his characters, even the bad ones, have medical knowledge and mine didn't. Not the bad ones anyway.

Ah. Gotcha. Academics *smh*

Don't take such people seriously. Though there are bad editors out there, the majority of real pros are more likely to ask a question about something questionable with which they have no experience than to make a blanket demand for a change.

If you know about something, you know it. Period. Cook can do what he does because he has actual professional editors who either checked out his info (or at least a fact checker has) or trust him to have done so.

Keep telling YOUR stories. If your basics are good (grammar, spelling, structure, punctuation) and your story told clearly enough for a layman to understand, realism will set you apart from those who are just guessing.
 

blunthead

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2006
80,755
195,461
Atlanta GA
It certainly can seem so! Reading good (meaning well-written) books often and everywhere makes it a little easier, as you get a feeling for the flow of words--your own sense of what 'sounds right' is enhanced. Add in a good writing manual, and it gets easier still. Don't give up!
When I had to write essays in college I really didn't know how it would go because I had never really written anything. My creative energy had been channeled via drawing and painting only. But I had enjoyed very much reading certain fiction authors by then and had apparently read enough books by some of them, Woody Allen, Conan Doyle, Agatha Christie, and especially William Goldman, that I found once I put my mind to work on doing the assignment the words were there. I had a voice, and it probably was similar to Goldman's, or I probably emulated his, or I was perhaps at least encouraged by his presence, as if I had someone to share the job with - a running partner. I found I really loved writing those essays, partly because work can be fun, and partly because it was my first experience watching something create itself.
 

Bryan James

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2009
5,150
7,644
South Cackalacky
When I was in school at about age 7 or 8, the class had to write one of those Very Useful Essays.

So 34ish years ago I used the description "as black as the Sith." Sure, I borrowed the potent word from somewhere, but hey, that's language.

It's not like I tried to pull a tintinnabulation out of the hat in 3rd grade.

My great paper got a "B" because Teacher said there was "no such word" (at least I hope I wasted some of her time if she tried to look it up in a dusty Merriam-Webster's back then).

I argued, and earned myself a downgrade to a "C." Who, me? Insolent?

Today, all I want to say to Mrs. [redacted] is Google it now, beeyotch!!11!

Most people do not know what they are doing. Worse still, and the hardest quest ion of all is why.

I've answered the other broad questions to my own satisfaction, but I'm still poking around for why.

I glued an errant puzzle piece on my wall near my normal TV watching spot. In the South, we have big roaches, and when they walk up eggshell cream colored walls (well, before being jaundiced by decades of tobacco smoke) they get noticed instantly.
I did it to remind myself to keep searching for my personal "why."

I've never conformed. I've been edited, sure...but not about things that truly matter to me.

With editors, teachers, petercetera, stick to your guns about the parts you really like. Hell, write some bad stuff on purpose and use their deletion as a bargaining chip.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neesy and Ebdim9th