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What makes you think you're going to heaven?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dr. Fudd, Mar 8, 2014.


Are you going to heaven or hell?

  1. Heaven

  2. Hell

  3. Neither exist

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  1. blunthead

    blunthead Well-Known Member

    Heaven, though I will not have deserved it; a situation which will put me in great company, as well as exactly where God wants me.
    VultureLvr45, Neesy and mjs9153 like this.
  2. king family fan

    king family fan Prolific member

    i am not sure I am going to heaven but not for the lack of trying. I always do my best to do the right things. but am human and sin.
  3. doowopgirl

    doowopgirl very avid fan

    I see you still insist on making your poiny bt quoting Scripture.
    blunthead likes this.
  4. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    So I'll begin where I left off before began to believe in God and at that time believed in evolution. I'd like to stress here that I don't dispute the repeatable findings in science. I love science, I just don't think blind chance can be blamed for the creation of all life or can be specifically attributed to random scientific occurrence.
    All the decay constants that can be measured here, will be represented in space. It's mass, rate of decay and it's decayed mass. There are a number of atoms whose decay rate is computable from the half-lives and decay constants of the nuclides. The decay waste can be determined from this decay rate.
    Which brings me to my problem with the billions of years that are necessary for the cosmos to have developed prior to the earth being inhabited. Even the conservative 4-5 billions years claimed for the age of the earth doesn't bother me as much as the 15 billion years for the estimated age of the galaxy. The moon is estimated to be about the same age as the earth so it's been sitting up there as long as the earth has been sitting here. The amount of debris on the moon doesn't seem to coincide with any of the estimated life spans. The component parts of those decayed atoms have measureable substances that don't seem to exist in abundance on the moon let along on earth. even given out atmosphere, there should be a consistent blanketing of those elements seeing that we decay on earth and receive particles also from within and without our atmosphere. That's just one of my problems with the evolution only explanation of cosmology and life on this planet.

    The word of God is eternal, what changes is the interpretation of the word of God, by Man, hence the 10's of thousands of denominations I've previously mentioned.

    Sacrifices were received of God as thanks for God's abundant provision and for God's grace and mercy and to become closer to the eternal, not to further mans understanding of the temporal world. Although the opposite isn't necessarily the case. Science does bring many closer to God. So I have yet another reason to love science. The more I hear science try to explain existence without God, the more I believe in God. The astronomical odds of just one peptide occurring accidently firmly grounds my faith in Jesus Christ as creator, and not by mere chance and unlimited time.

    Thank you for you patience with me.
  5. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    It's what I live by. You said that I didn't consider you sanctimonious enough for heaven, and by scripture I was showing you, neither am I.
    VultureLvr45 likes this.
  6. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    I hear you on the oblivion part. There's nothing I'd like more on some days than nothing.

    The rest of what you said, I have deep reservations.
  7. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    I almost missed your post. The thread (I've almost forgotten what I was asking since I posted it) is WHY you think you're going to heaven?
  8. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    So you feel it's something that you have to do to get to heaven? "to do the right things"?
    VultureLvr45 likes this.
  9. Grandpa

    Grandpa Well-Known Member

    I don't want to indulge in last-wordism, although sure seems like it. I'll keep it short (for me).

    I just need to note that evolution is not a belief structure, any more than entropy, digestion, or photosynthesis are belief structures. It's a name of a range of processes.

    Reputable is as reputable does. I don't pick findings I like and call them reputable and findings that upset my notions and call them not reputable. It's the other way around. My view is shaped by the more believable, more proven, evidence.

    If life came about through chance, it wouldn't be blamed, it would be credited. I know, that sure looks like nitpicking. But there's a tendency by advocates to pile on the pejoratives to possibilities that they dispute, and so abiogenesis gets "blamed." If we start with an open mind, we needn't peremptorily discredit much of anything that we're exposed to. Let the evidence support it, or not.

    The rest, I think we've rehashed several times, and I can add very little else.
  10. Sigmund

    Sigmund Waiting in Uber.

    Crud. I promised myself I would not post on this thread. After reading ALL the posts I should have listened to my own advice.

    I know I am going to heaven simply because my God loves me.

    MY God is a loving, nurturing, forgiving God. He knows me. And He loves me. (Cool, huh?)

    I can play bible scripture, if you roll that way. I have read most, if not all, *bibles*. (And I can quote scriptures.)

    I dislike bible thumpers that use the bible to beat, accuse, belittle, and tear down people. (BTW- I have found , in my experience, those people who shout out the loudest...are hypocrites. JMO and experience.)

    I also dislike people who try to shove their beliefs down my throat. Not cool.


    if you have not come to realize what you are doing -alienating the very people you are trying to *save*- THAT is on YOU.


    (I will not post on this thread ever again.)
  11. Bryan James

    Bryan James Well-Known Member

    Jesus loves me,

    This I know,

    For the Buddha tells me so...
    nate_watkins and ~Ally~ like this.
  12. doowopgirl

    doowopgirl very avid fan

    Fair enough. I think I've misunderstood your motives. I still think I'm going to heaven.
  13. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    Yeah, I get that a lot. My desire is to see scripture from an angle I haven't before seen it. I like to dig into it but it really upsets people when you do that. I'm extremely aware of things like the ratio of good news to the amount of warning in the bible. When I read it, I see the chapter or so of promise followed by page after page of warnings about what happens when the word of God isn't followed and there's a verse that says, these aren't all the warnings. I just don't think that can be ignored. But mostly, I just like scripture. I like anything that causes it to jump to mind. Or better, to find verses that I hadn't before recalled for a specific application. I look for representatives, people, for verses like Psalm 119:165 that says, "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them." I don't find many of these people. There are some, but most people are easily offended by being challenged with scripture. I had an experience today talking to someone that didn't believe that devils believe in God. I found the verse for him and he calmed down. Then I proceeded to just go nearly brain dead. I could barely put two sentences together. It was really weird. So when I ask a question like, 'so what makes you think you're going to heaven?', I'm looking for a couple things: someone that's thought it through and can give more than the pat answers, or someone that wants to think it through so that they, and I can learn more about God and more about the bible. Those are my motives.
  14. doowopgirl

    doowopgirl very avid fan

    I have nothing against living by scripture. There are MANY examples and LOTS of wisdom and answers to be found in the Good Book. I just felt that you were using scripture to show me how I wasn't going to heaven and I resented that. I hope we can remain friends.
    VultureLvr45 likes this.
  15. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    God shows us how to make heaven our eternal home. I don't use the bible to show people that they aren't going to heaven. My intention is quite the opposite, I use scripture to fill in places where something may be missing. For instance if you were going to split a log for the first time and I noticed you were wearing sandals or not wearing safety glasses, I'd suggest those things. You'd decide whether or not you'll use them, but that's beyond my obligation. If you were to argue with me that safety glasses or boots aren't necessary, I'd cite the numerous cases of injury including my own experience using an axe. That's all I'm doing here. I read Matt 7:21-23 and it scares me. It scares me for me and it scares me for anyone else that claims to believe in Jesus Christ. The verses are sobering. Matt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." I don't know about you, but that's scary stuff to me. These verses and all the other verses that refer to these. I can't imagine anything more tragic than for someone who thought they were saved, to stand before Jesus and hear this.
    I talked to a guy the other day. In the 10 or 15 minutes before I talked to him i learned that he'd just finished an ounce of pot, lied to his boss so he wouldn't have to go to work and then proceeded to hit on the teenage girl that was sitting across from him. He made a phone call to someone, I found out during the call, who was in his church and he said "God Bless" at the end of the call. So tell me, do I just let that guy go on his way after hearing all of that, and let him believe that he's going to heaven? Do you think if he'd died right then that he would have made heaven his home? This stuff really bothers me. I'm afraid for sinners and I'm afraid for Gods church. There are so many warnings in the bible, I just can't ignore them.

    I would truly like to be friends, but in that friendship, I want to be able to discuss the finer and much sharper points of scripture with you without you becoming offended. I think the devil uses offense to cause division. Can you agree to listen to me with your spirit instead of your human ears? I'd also like you to bring to bear scripture you know and are currently reading.
  16. Grandpa

    Grandpa Well-Known Member

    In such a friendship, would it flow both ways? To hear about light that's been traveling for billions of years longer longer than the earth's been around, or some questions about the origins, variations, and translations of books of the bible?

    And I'm not saying this to open debate on them. I'm sure you can see where I'm going - that a friendship that just flows just one way, at one's insistence, wouldn't be much of a friendship.
  17. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    Absolutely. I listen without offense. My support for that is, if I was easily offended, or if it were possible to offend me at all (I'm sure you've read the replies I've received) would I still be here talking?

    To more accurately respond to what you said, the only difference I could see is your and my discussion would more often be apples and oranges, where my discussion with doowopgirl would be apples or oranges, if that makes any sense. She and I agree on far more points starting out than you and I would agree on.
  18. Grandpa

    Grandpa Well-Known Member

    So in the dialogue, you would expect respect to your point of view, and you would give respect to the other's point of view.

    Fair enough, then.
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  19. Dr. Fudd

    Dr. Fudd Bored Taster

    Since I believe that God gave us free will, I'm bound by God to respect your right to believe what you want. Not necessarily respect your point of view, just your right to have it. To explain it with an extreme (again) if you believed that sacrificing babies was the only way to heaven, I would respect your right to believe that without respecting your horrendous belief/practice.
    VultureLvr45 likes this.
  20. mjs9153

    mjs9153 Guest

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