When Stephen King goes too far

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kelliblue

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2018
385
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Don't get me wrong. I think Stephen King is a brilliant man. I will always have a deep respect for him.
A few months ago I found several articles about the number of times Game of Thrones went too far.
Then I started thinking about the number of times Stephen King went too far (for me personally).
There were many storylines in King's novels that I thought were incredibly disturbing.
These were things that made me question my position as a constant reader.

Here is a partial list:
-the baby killing and baby eating of In the Tall Grass
-the brutal rape of an African American woman by white men in Bag of Bones

-Carrie White killing everyone at her high school prom
(Because of real life events, I find Carrie more disturbing now than when I originally read it.)

-the death and resurrection of the little boy Gage in Pet Sematary
-the incest in Mr. Mercedes
-child sexual activity in It
I'm just being honest here. You can't hate me for that.

 

mjs9153

Peripherally known member..
Nov 21, 2014
3,494
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I get what you mean, those are tough reads.. yet all of them, perhaps excepting the resurrection theme, are incidents that have occurred, and some still do. Think it takes guts to put those themes out there, because of course there is criticism bound to be leveled, but he does and lets the reader make out of them what they will. We can either take them as something to think about and ponder, or just leave them at face value as storytelling, he leaves it up to the constant reader..
 

kelliblue

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2018
385
2,016
I get what you mean, those are tough reads.. yet all of them, perhaps excepting the resurrection theme, are incidents that have occurred, and some still do. Think it takes guts to put those themes out there, because of course there is criticism bound to be leveled, but he does and lets the reader make out of them what they will. We can either take them as something to think about and ponder, or just leave them at face value as storytelling, he leaves it up to the constant reader..
Someone told me that when you read a novel, it's not just a passive process. He said you become a "participant" instead of just a mere "observer."
I have had nightmares from reading some of Stephen's books, namely Pet Sematary and The Shining. In those dreams I actually felt like a participant.
 

Edward John

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
4,004
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Don't get me wrong. I think Stephen King is a brilliant man. I will always have a deep respect for him.
A few months ago I found several articles about the number of times Game of Thrones went too far.
Then I started thinking about the number of times Stephen King went too far (for me personally).
There were many storylines in King's novels that I thought were incredibly disturbing.
These were things that made me question my position as a constant reader.

Here is a partial list:
-the baby killing and baby eating of In the Tall Grass
-the brutal rape of an African American woman by white men in Bag of Bones

-Carrie White killing everyone at her high school prom
(Because of real life events, I find Carrie more disturbing now than when I originally read it.)

-the death and resurrection of the little boy Gage in Pet Sematary
-the incest in Mr. Mercedes
-child sexual activity in It
I'm just being honest here. You can't hate me for that.

I get what your saying about the idea of going to far. If memory serves, another example is in the IT novel, (ignored in the recent film), where there is the scene with Beth, Im fairly certain you know what scene I'm talking about. That was the only real example of where I thought King went too far. Then again, you have to remember its just a novel, its fiction. I understand the Pet Semetary one, but that event is so important to the novel. I'm interested, does it hinder your enjoyment?
 

kelliblue

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2018
385
2,016
I get what your saying about the idea of going to far. If memory serves, another example is in the IT novel, (ignored in the recent film), where there is the scene with Beth, Im fairly certain you know what scene I'm talking about. That was the only real example of where I thought King went too far. Then again, you have to remember its just a novel, its fiction. I understand the Pet Semetary one, but that event is so important to the novel. I'm interested, does it hinder your enjoyment?
It didn't hinder my enjoyment of the book. I just had never read anything like it before. King likes to push the envelope.

I'll admit that I read It really quickly because it was so long and I just wanted to get to the end. It wasn't until my second reading that I began to question it. There are like a million articles about that one scene towards the end.
 
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Edward John

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
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Yes, it does hinder my enjoyment of the books. I'll admit that I read It really quickly because it was so long and I just wanted to get to the end. It wasn't until my second reading that I began to question it. There are like a million articles about that one scene towards the end.
If memory serves, Stephen said it was something along the lines of, referring to that scene from It, in which it was to ensure that the group became closer in which to defeat Pennywise, because they could only defeat them through being close, closer than normal. I always though it was weird thinking right enough. I point I'm making is that I think all the incidents you refer to do serve some kind of purpose in the story, its not solely to ensure that readers are creeped out. There is a reason behind King's madness I think.
 

Gerald

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2011
2,201
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The Netherlands
There is always a lot of talk about that scene from It, but as far as I remember it wasn't an abusive scene. There are so many scenes of people being abused in his books, that the scene in It didn't shock me. I can't remember exactly how it went, and the book was abridged here, but I took it more that through their experience they had matured sooner than other kids, and it was an affirmation of their bond together rather than meant as something nasty.
Basically, how old are the Losers supposed to be in It?

Sometimes King's later books feel stronger in content than his older books. In The Tall Grass is indeed a tough read. He always had subjects that pushed the envelope, like Survivor Type where someone eats himself, but somehow his earlier books feel often more in an EC horror vein where the violence has a comic book feel to it, and there is also something a bit funny about the whole situation.

Does anyone else feel he's gotten more explicit and crude over time?
 

Edward John

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
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There is always a lot of talk about that scene from It, but as far as I remember it wasn't an abusive scene. There are so many scenes of people being abused in his books, that the scene in It didn't shock me. I can't remember exactly how it went, and the book was abridged here, but I took it more that through their experience they had matured sooner than other kids, and it was an affirmation of their bond together rather than meant as something nasty.
Basically, how old are the Losers supposed to be in It?

Sometimes King's later books feel stronger in content than his older books. In The Tall Grass is indeed a tough read. He always had subjects that pushed the envelope, like Survivor Type where someone eats himself, but somehow his earlier books feel often more in an EC horror vein where the violence has a comic book feel to it, and there is also something a bit funny about the whole situation.

Does anyone else feel he's gotten more explicit and crude over time?

I think his writing has always had those elements to it, I don't know if you ever read his novel on writing, but in that he discusses the fact that he is a massive fan of pulp horror stories and considers them just as viable as the classics of literature, such as Dickens or Hemingway. I think these incidents are just the manifestation of such influences.
 

Gerald

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2011
2,201
7,168
The Netherlands
I think his writing has always had those elements to it, I don't know if you ever read his novel on writing, but in that he discusses the fact that he is a massive fan of pulp horror stories and considers them just as viable as the classics of literature, such as Dickens or Hemingway. I think these incidents are just the manifestation of such influences.

Which pulp horror stories is he talking about?

I think he clearly wants to shock and uses anything he can think of to reach that effect. Also I don't think he cares about whether people get offended by that. I find some of his later work sometimes more crude, more direct in its way it wants to shock. For example, Dick Hallorann's granddad returning from the dead in Dr. Sleep, lying naked on his bed with an erect, rotting penis and asking the boy to get on top of him. That is a rather cheap and direct way to shock.
 

Edward John

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Aug 15, 2019
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Which pulp horror stories is he talking about?

I think he clearly wants to shock and uses anything he can think of to reach that effect. Also I don't think he cares about whether people get offended by that. I find some of his later work sometimes more crude, more direct in its way it wants to shock. For example, Dick Hallorann's granddad returning from the dead in Dr. Sleep, lying naked on his bed with an erect, rotting penis and asking the boy to get on top of him. That is a rather cheap and direct way to shock.

The horror stories of the 40's and fifties. That is what I am referring to.
 

mjs9153

Peripherally known member..
Nov 21, 2014
3,494
22,165
Which pulp horror stories is he talking about?

I think he clearly wants to shock and uses anything he can think of to reach that effect. Also I don't think he cares about whether people get offended by that. I find some of his later work sometimes more crude, more direct in its way it wants to shock. For example, Dick Hallorann's granddad returning from the dead in Dr. Sleep, lying naked on his bed with an erect, rotting penis and asking the boy to get on top of him. That is a rather cheap and direct way to shock.
What? I don't remember this at all, maybe I need to reread Dr Sleep, I just don't recall that..seems more than a bit weird..
 

HollyGolightly

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Sep 6, 2013
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I understand what you're saying - I get so absorbed in the story, and the horrible things that happen are so much a part of who the characters are, it becomes part of the whole. Hard to read for certain, but for the most part not so graphic that I get mired down in the moment. I had to read that link from Spideyman to remind myself about that particular scene. So yes SK does go too far at times, but what goes too far for me is different than what goes too far for someone else. And he's hardly alone - Bret Easton Ellis has freaked me out muchly, Anne Rice has some strange scenes that left me unsettled, Clive Barker is another. There are more, I'm sure.

For me, as SK books go, Four Past Midnight was hard to get through. So real, those stories. Those things happen all the time. Terrifyingly true.
 

Edward John

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
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I understand what you're saying - I get so absorbed in the story, and the horrible things that happen are so much a part of who the characters are, it becomes part of the whole. Hard to read for certain, but for the most part not so graphic that I get mired down in the moment. I had to read that link from Spideyman to remind myself about that particular scene. So yes SK does go too far at times, but what goes too far for me is different than what goes too far for someone else. And he's hardly alone - Bret Easton Ellis has freaked me out muchly, Anne Rice has some strange scenes that left me unsettled, Clive Barker is another. There are more, I'm sure.

For me, as SK books go, Four Past Midnight was hard to get through. So real, those stories. Those things happen all the time. Terrifyingly true.

Agreed. I also think that the flow of the story has something to do with it. Stephen has said on numerous occasions that he never intentionally will do something to shock someone, he does it if it serves the story and only if it serves the story. I mean, not every King work is a horror, take Stand By Me as an example, or Shawshank. I think Stephen follows wherever it is the story takes him. If your going to blame someone, blame whoever it is giving him the stories, haha.
 

Sundrop

Sunny the Great & Wonderful
Jun 12, 2008
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I think "too far" is and should be for the reader to decide. Have you ever read Jack Ketchum or Bentley Little? Both are very popular horror fiction writers, and both take things so much farther than Stephen King. I even commented to the BF once about how the subject of a story by Bentley Little made me really uncomfortable. His response to me was "It's called horror for a reason. It's not supposed to be a feel good story."