To all you aspiring writers out there

skimom2 said:

I get what you're saying but I think that reading too much bad writing (not all pulp writers were bad writers, btw) lends a better chance of picking up bad habits by osmosis--lol. This is especially true of inexperienced writers who are still finding their own style. EVERYONE apes at the beginning--EVERYONE (any new writer who thinks they're completely original makes me laugh). It's how we learn. So if you're apeing garbage, there's a chance you're incorporating swill into what will eventually become your 'style'.

Click to expand...

But whats wrong with that? As a songwriter, I find that apeing swill into my style adds a certain charm I wouldn't normally have had I not incorporated it

Bob Seger's "Old Time Rock N Roll" is a 4/4 I-IV-V boogie rock song. As a musical form, its barbaric....and I-IV-V boogies are one of the most rehashed and overdone musical arrangements in Western popular music (including USA Country) over the past 70 years. Plus, it has a line that says "Today's music ain't got the same soul" which should make every literary writer cringe with revulsion.....but that "apeish" song structure and groove moves people and that line just wouldn't have the same honesty or effect had he sung "Today's music doesn't have the same soul". The swill delivers!.....and whether or not we are writing lyrics or stories, isn't the whole idea of the written word about communicating efficiently and effectively?

skimom2 said:

I get what you're saying but I think that reading too much bad writing (not all pulp writers were bad writers, btw) lends a better chance of picking up bad habits by osmosis--lol. This is especially true of inexperienced writers who are still finding their own style. EVERYONE apes at the beginning--EVERYONE (any new writer who thinks they're completely original makes me laugh). It's how we learn. So if you're apeing garbage, there's a chance you're incorporating swill into what will eventually become your 'style'.

Click to expand...

Well sure. Too much of anything is bad. I never meant to imply one should imitate the lousy stuff they read--rather, if they're sharp enough, they should be able to recognize poorly written work and, maybe, learn what NOT to do. If not...well...maybe a good editor will whip em into shape, heh heh...

Pucker said:

The knowledge that you can write better than some who have been published can certainly be uplifting, but I think it reinforces the idea that if you long to be published (as you and I), writing the actual story is the easy part.

Click to expand...

Oh trust me, the story is my GOD; it's my mistress, my demon, my first, my last, my EVERYTHING...whether or not it ever gets published is incidental.

Okay, I'll give yez a totally different example: my eldest sister, with whom I've never (until recently) been close with, has caught the writing bug. For years her opinion of me was...well...lower than I'd like. But one day, out of the blue, she reads that fifty shades of crap book--realizes even SHE can do better than THAT. So she takes up the quill, bless her heart, and just about has her own novel completed. NOW she can't get enough of me. Like I'm Yoda or something. Finally realizing what it is I am, she has a newfound respect for me. And her stuff is pretty decent--nothing I'd read on my own, mind ye, but good for the sort of stuff she writes. THUS, 'bad' writing brought two distant siblings together.

SpazzTheBassPlayer said:

But whats wrong with that? As a songwriter, I find that apeing swill into my style adds a certain charm I wouldn't normally have had I not incorporated it

Bob Seger's "Old Time Rock N Roll" is a 4/4 I-IV-V boogie rock song. As a musical form, its barbaric....and I-IV-V boogies are one of the most rehashed and overdone musical arrangements in Western popular music (including USA Country) over the past 70 years. Plus, it has a line that says "Today's music ain't got the same soul" which should make every literary writer cringe with revulsion.....but that "apeish" song structure and groove moves people and that line just wouldn't have the same honesty or effect had he sung "Today's music doesn't have the same soul". The swill delivers!.....and whether or not we are writing lyrics or stories, isn't the whole idea of the written word about communicating efficiently and effectively?

Click to expand...

Sure. Simple doesn't equal bad, though. I've found that only talented people can create a ring of crystal within the jelly glass of simplicity (to WILDLY misquote and steal from Mr. King ). To use your example, for every thousand crappy country or pop/rock songs (I noticed a lot of it in 80s heavy metal) that uses that time signature and swangin' sound, there are not a lot that stand up over time. Those that do have that *ring*, something that indicates talent beyond ability to follow the most basic blues beat of all. In writing, it's the same. I've read pulp across many genres that sang, and 'literary fiction' that is technically perfect but sinks like a stone. You can break rules in both arts, but you have to know what the rules are first and how to break them for the fullest effect or you have hash. You may not agree, but there's my reasoning And, by the way, I was not calling anyone 'apeish' to belittle them; I used 'apeing' meaning, 'to copy or mimic'. I would never insult someone like that. Writing (bad or good) is hard enough without being cruel to each other.

I don't think bad writing is completely subjective, some people may just lack the capacity to make the distinction. Although I think writers know right away when they're not really trying to pull an idea out of the back of their heads, rather just leaning heavily on other authors for material. Is something beautiful, or am I just having 'beautiful' feelings about it? As far as the story itself goes, that's the rub isn't it?

The Good Guy said:

Do any of you read bad books and spend time on it so you get an idea of what bad writing is? In other words if you come across a book, read the first couple of paragraphs and already think it's bad do you think to yourselves it's worth a read so you can remind yourself what bad writing is?

I remember king mentioned how he closed a book and stopped reading it because of how poor the prose was. And I don't remember him mentioning about wanting to spend time to read bad books. Or did he? do you know if mentions at all in On Writing about reading bad books?

Click to expand...

I don't spend time reading outright poor stories, or those with superfluous, unnecessary detail. There is enough good material in abundance that's worthy of our focus.