Group Discussion II: The Stand (40th Anniversary)
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Exactly. Ben and Mark, too. "Everyone thought the man and boy were father and son". The beginning to 'Salem's Lot.
The realization that action was necessary, the attempt at something never done before, the failure to succeed. The acceptance of
"that is that". Reality in motion.
What is your opinion of Lucy Swann? Do you think it took Larry a long time to forget about Nadine? I wasn't initially convinced that Lucy and Larry had any kind of meaningful relationship. Obviously this changes by Part Three, but what did you guys think? She was a character I didn't immediately click with.
She’s kind of underly developed, I kind of forgot she was a character until she and Larry were partners. Not a bad side character but a little too underdeveloped for me to care that much about her romance with Larry.
I have shared all my questions and comments that I'd written in my notebook. If anyone has further comments or questions, please share them. It's almost 8:30, so we will leave this discussion open-ended. Thanks to all who participated. I will try to have final discussion in early January. Date/time to come.
Again, this conversation can continue for as long as needed. I thoroughly enjoyed reliving this part of the book. Old friends.
Again, this conversation can continue for as long as needed. I thoroughly enjoyed reliving this part of the book. Old friends.
Lucy was a survivor- having lost her family. A thought could be that with her survival instincts, the need for companionship was a necessity. Thus pairing up with Larry and developing into a relationship. I do feel Larry took a long time getting over Nadine. It may have been an insecurity on his part.
Yeah, we are given more backstory (and more time with) other ancillary characters; this could be the problem. Once Lucy is active in Boulder, we see Larry fall for her but it's almost perfunctory. Again, by the end I liked her more and my feelings were stronger.
I think Lucy is a quiet character, yet a strong one because she IS who Larry needs. She helps ground him and see there is more to life than being a self centered cad all the time. Larry knew that before Lucy in his heart, but he could not seem to make it into any kind of reality.
Nadine is like the sexy pin up in my mind. Looks great but no substance when it comes right down to it. Larry feels like maybe he could have changed what happened to Nick and the others if he had listened to Nadine but she would have been using him even if he had chosen her. It was all self serving with Nadine.
Yeah, and I did appreciate the drama that was created when Lucy joined Larry's group. It didn't take long for there to be friction between Lucy and Nadine.
This was my idea of her, too. Larry genuinely cared for her but I think it was mostly animal attraction and a lustful desire. Lucy loved him. Nadine loved nobody...not even Joe/Leo. (Nadine was a teacher and cared for Joe, obviously, but she was on a collision course and fighting a losing battle in her soul.)
Oh, I almost forgot...remember when Tom was at Mother Abigail's farm house and he was afraid to walk in the dark to his bed in the shed? I know we haven't reached the ending yet but it is striking to see how far he grows and how courageous he is when he's helping take care of Stu alone (sort of, LOL). Just throwing that out there so I don't forget. Someone remind me at our next meeting. There will be a lot of meat on the bone for unfolding Tom Cullen's arc.
Thanks again for the intelligent commentary and conversation. Goodnight.
HollyGolightly holly, add your thoughts if you have anything to share. We missed you.
HollyGolightly holly, add your thoughts if you have anything to share. We missed you.
I know I’m crossing over into act three territory with this but speaking of Nadine Cross...
I feel the way Nadine dies is really anticlimactic to her final goal, the whole birthing Randall’s spawn thing. She goes out of her way to get there only to end up being thrown to her death by Flaggy himself. She’s an interesting character but far outshined in the traitor/mental decline category by Harold. I believe Harold is a perfect example of how to write a traitorous/morally declining character while Nadine feels a bit more empty to me, like a more hollow character. Like Harold her character is practically doomed from the start, but I feel Harold has a more realistic and human decline in sanity/morals, he tries to do good in the beginning, but his self destructive personality traits plus his greedy lustful feelings towards Fran turn him into a truly human evil. He has an ending that sums up his arc and he’s able to feel genuine regret about how he acted towards and the horrible things he did towards people who cared about him, his ending feels genuinely upsetting because he’s able to be remorseful and guilty in it which allows for the reader to not forgive him but understand and feel for him, Nadine’s demise is more quick and out of the blue and doesn’t leave much room for feeling.
Panda, those are excellent points. I agree with you on the fateful trajectories of Nadine and Harold.
Yeah, Harold wasn't the doomed figure like Nadine turned out to be. In regard to Nadine's anticlimactic demise (dramatic but not meaningful, maybe), I have come to forgive (and even appreciate) particular narratives that fizzle out or defy traditional expectations. King has said he often has no idea where the story is taking him, and this might be the element of danger and surprise I seldom find in other authors. Yes, there are wonderful stylists and writers who emulate the grand design in Shakespeare and Greek mythology, but there is something to be said for spontaneity in a novel, even when a character's story becomes somewhat nonsensical or loses its emotional impact. It may sound counterintuitive for a writer to practice this, but because King doesn't always know what will happen next, neither do we, and that is thrilling. His critics will occasionally accuse him of writing unwieldy, bloated stories, but he has captured lightning in a bottle too many times for him to suddenly distrust his instincts.
Yes King is amazing at allowing stories to be fresh and surprising, even books I really enjoy don’t always know the appropriate moment to put a shocking twist
Like Red Dragon for instance, a novel I’ve praised multiple times on here. It’s ending sucked because the book had gotten to the point where it was ending smoothly and sensibly, and then he decides to pull that awfully stupid twist that completely ruined it in the literal last 6 pages. It was in that point where the reader is slowing down and getting ready to put the book down and deliver their own emotional verdict on the ending and he decides to pull the twist that ruins the main characters life right out of the blue
Hand of God thing
I find it deeply ironic that one of my friends refuses to read King because he just assumes him to be a stereotypical “horror” writer where all the characters just have cookie cutter personalities that are all destined to die in horrible and unrealistic ways, considering the scene I just mentioned and many more that King has written
Just swooping by right now. I'll add my thoughts tomorrow 
I was late for part one but read the entire book when the board was down. Then, since it was October movie marathon month, I immediately watched the mini-series when I was done with the book. I don't want to go astray here and start talking about the mini-series in the book thread but just want to mention how interesting it was to see what Stephen chose to truncate for the mini-series.
Now, I'm not one to usually point out small factual errors (like safeties on Glocks) because I think it's kind of petty to expect the author to know everything but CHOCOLATE ON A PAYDAY? Come on
Maybe someone brought that up in the other thread. Since I haven't read the other thread, I better shut up and go read it before I post anymore and I need to look to see where book two ended so I don't say anything about book 3. To quote Arnold, "I'll be back"
Now, I'm not one to usually point out small factual errors (like safeties on Glocks
) because I think it's kind of petty to expect the author to know everything but CHOCOLATE ON A PAYDAY? Come on Maybe someone brought that up in the other thread. Since I haven't read the other thread, I better shut up and go read it before I post anymore and I need to look to see where book two ended so I don't say anything about book 3. To quote Arnold, "I'll be back"
I think chapter 61 begins the last book.I was late for part one but read the entire book when the board was down. Then, since it was October movie marathon month, I immediately watched the mini-series when I was done with the book. I don't want to go astray here and start talking about the mini-series in the book thread but just want to mention how interesting it was to see what Stephen chose to truncate for the mini-series.
Now, I'm not one to usually point out small factual errors (like safeties on Glocks
Maybe someone brought that up in the other thread. Since I haven't read the other thread, I better shut up and go read it before I post anymore and I need to look to see where book two ended so I don't say anything about book 3. To quote Arnold, "I'll be back"
PayDay Chocolatey Avalanche, a chocolate-covered version, in 2007
Just swooping by right now. I'll add my thoughts tomorrow
I would be interested to hear your thoughts. Favorite moments, quotes, anything.I was late for part one but read the entire book when the board was down. Then, since it was October movie marathon month, I immediately watched the mini-series when I was done with the book. I don't want to go astray here and start talking about the mini-series in the book thread but just want to mention how interesting it was to see what Stephen chose to truncate for the mini-series.
Now, I'm not one to usually point out small factual errors (like safeties on Glocks
Maybe someone brought that up in the other thread. Since I haven't read the other thread, I better shut up and go read it before I post anymore and I need to look to see where book two ended so I don't say anything about book 3. To quote Arnold, "I'll be back"