Re-reading and grammar

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sam peebles

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2008
2,080
509
Massachusetts
About halfway through my second trip.

I understand the lessons against a passive voice and adverbs, and am going to go back through my creative writing to make a lot of edits. I just had some questions regarding King's personal style.

Does anyone know where his use of hyphens originated? I know he's not unique in this--but he does seem to be the most prevalent--and they seem to either replace commas or parentheses. The standard rule (which I don't necessarily agree with) is that if it's in parentheses it's probably superfluous and should go. That is not, of course, the same rule as commas. Is this more stylistic over function? Does he prefer the way a hyphen breaks up a paragraph and appeals to him visually?

Always end a possessive with 's regardless whether the word end in an s or not.

I understand this with a proper noun. "Thomas's binoculars" as opposed to "Thomas' binoculars". However, this doesn't seem to apply to other nouns. "The monsters's teeth" doesn't look or sound (in my head) right to me. I want to write and say "the monsters' teeth". Monsters being plural, of course. Is the plural noun the exception to this rule? King only goes over this rule in one brief sentence so I was hoping for a little clarification.

And finally...I've finished the writing assignment and was wondering where to submit my story? :snicker:
 

blunthead

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2006
80,755
195,461
Atlanta GA
About halfway through my second trip.

I understand the lessons against a passive voice and adverbs, and am going to go back through my creative writing to make a lot of edits. I just had some questions regarding King's personal style.

Does anyone know where his use of hyphens originated? I know he's not unique in this--but he does seem to be the most prevalent--and they seem to either replace commas or parentheses. The standard rule (which I don't necessarily agree with) is that if it's in parentheses it's probably superfluous and should go. That is not, of course, the same rule as commas. Is this more stylistic over function? Does he prefer the way a hyphen breaks up a paragraph and appeals to him visually?

Always end a possessive with 's regardless whether the word end in an s or not.

I understand this with a proper noun. "Thomas's binoculars" as opposed to "Thomas' binoculars". However, this doesn't seem to apply to other nouns. "The monsters's teeth" doesn't look or sound (in my head) right to me. I want to write and say "the monsters' teeth". Monsters being plural, of course. Is the plural noun the exception to this rule? King only goes over this rule in one brief sentence so I was hoping for a little clarification.

And finally...I've finished the writing assignment and was wondering where to submit my story? :snicker:
I assume that Mod has a special suggestion where to submit it.

I started noticing certain things when I first started out with sK. The "hyphens" (dashes) to which you refer - like I'm using them here - to set off phrases being one of the first. I felt that the reading of the sentence was made much easier, the meaning clearer and so the dashes were necessary, especially as I felt that sK often packs so much into one thought. The next thing I noticed were fewer commas than I thought I was used to. Since reading him I've realized that that omission of commas is not unusual, and so not then a lack.

I've used sK as a writing teacher, and try to emulate him such that now when I write I use far fewer commas and I use dashes more. The dashes make expressing what I need to say easier while I don't miss the commas which can make reading cumbersome.
 

Moderator

Ms. Mod
Administrator
Jul 10, 2006
52,243
157,324
Maine
About halfway through my second trip.

I understand the lessons against a passive voice and adverbs, and am going to go back through my creative writing to make a lot of edits. I just had some questions regarding King's personal style.

Does anyone know where his use of hyphens originated? I know he's not unique in this--but he does seem to be the most prevalent--and they seem to either replace commas or parentheses. The standard rule (which I don't necessarily agree with) is that if it's in parentheses it's probably superfluous and should go. That is not, of course, the same rule as commas. Is this more stylistic over function? Does he prefer the way a hyphen breaks up a paragraph and appeals to him visually?

Always end a possessive with 's regardless whether the word end in an s or not.

I understand this with a proper noun. "Thomas's binoculars" as opposed to "Thomas' binoculars". However, this doesn't seem to apply to other nouns. "The monsters's teeth" doesn't look or sound (in my head) right to me. I want to write and say "the monsters' teeth". Monsters being plural, of course. Is the plural noun the exception to this rule? King only goes over this rule in one brief sentence so I was hoping for a little clarification.

And finally...I've finished the writing assignment and was wondering where to submit my story? :snicker:
dunno.gif He's traveling today and then will be busy with family for the holidays so chances are I will forget this between now and after the first of the year when I get back from vacation. Strunk & White was his go-to reference but I don't know if that's how he was influenced to start using the dash.

Plurals are the exception to using the apostrophe s for possessive nouns with the further exception being they are used for proper nouns.
 

DiO'Bolic

Not completely obtuse
Nov 14, 2013
22,864
129,998
Poconos, PA
View attachment 13748Plurals are the exception to using the apostrophe s for possessive nouns with the further exception being they are used for proper nouns.
My god, it's like listening to daughter #3. That, and advanced calculus equations that her professor explains wrong and then needs to correct. All I ever hear on both topics in my ears is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. :)
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
62
Cambridge, Ohio
4977574.png
 

sam peebles

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2008
2,080
509
Massachusetts
See "Jacksons's sons" just looks wrong to me, but I think that's only because Jacksons is an unfamiliar proper noun. Why is it not Jackson? The only way I can make it work is if it's referring to a couple--maybe the Jackson matriarch and patriarch together. Husband and wife. But then...if it's pluralized...should the apostrophe be placed that way? Ughh!!! I don't know!

I think...no? But if it's singular and it's just a weird variation on Jackson, a distortion made on Ellis Island, then it's correct?

I think I'm fairly well-versed with American grammar, but it still makes my head hurt. I usually just go with what feels natural.

My own personal pet peeves with grammar include the word "but" as a conjunction. I've already used it three times in this post, and I'm obsessive about it, keeping an auto-tally in my head. In my creative writing I remove it at any opportunity (usually I can remove the said "but" in question and replace it with a period, starting a fresh sentence with a sigh of relief).

I don't mind splitting an infinitive, and both public and academia opinion seems to be on my side. Heinlein was oddly against them, but (there's that word again!!!) then again, he was born in 1907 and it was probably drilled into his skull. I believe this is a made-up rule by the British, and Raymond Chandler said it best in regards to a proof reader who edited his material for the Atlantic Monthly:

"By the way, would you convey my compliments to the purist who reads your proofs and tell him or her that I write in a sort of broken-down patois which is something like the way a Swiss-waiter talks, and that when I split an infinitive, God damn it, I split it so it will remain split, and when I interrupt the velvety smoothness of my more or less literate syntax with a few sudden words of barroom vernacular, this is done with the eyes wide open and the mind relaxed and attentive. The method may not be perfect, but it is all I have."

I don't like ending a sentence with a preposition--otherwise known as preposition stranding--and will avoid it if possible, but won't rewrite if the result is awkward. This rule is also false.

To get back on the topic at hand--that of my reread of On Writing--may I just say that I found the partial inspiration for Carrie, two girls King knew in High School that he identifies as "Sondra" and "Dodie Franklin" in the book, as one of the saddest things I've ever read. Anywhere. I want to add that to the miscellaneous thread for King's most heart-rending work. Previously I selected Hearts in Atlantis, and I stand by that, but dammit if King's descriptions--no doubt pinpoint accurate--of these two girls didn't make me misty eyed. One lived in a trailer with a nearly life-sized crucifix hanging from the wall and a religious zealot mother, and the other wore the same pair of clothes for years to school. King is emphatic that he literally means years. This latter, the "Dodie Franklin", was the most tragic in my rereading experience, as when she finally came to school after winter break, she's wearing new clothes, and even got a permanent. You know how happy and excited she must've been, much like Carrie going to the prom. Of the other children, King writes:

"It doesn't matter. Because mere clothes changed nothing. The teasing that day was worse than ever. Her peers had no intention of letting her out of the box they put her in; she was punished for even trying to break free...I saw her smile fade, saw the light in her eyes first dim and then go out. By the end of the day she was the girl she was before Christmas vacation..."

He then goes on to describe the inevitable deterioration of Dodie's new clothes throughout the semesters. The icing on the cake is:

"Both Sandra and Dodie were dead before I started writing Carrie."

All I got to say about that is: Damn. How did I ever forget that awful story the first time I read it? I think that's going to stay with me for the rest of my life.
 
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