Transgender woman in men's prison

[AnnaMarie]

Transgender woman Avery Edison in Toronto-area men's prison |Toronto & GTA | News | Toronto Sun

I'm kind of on the fence here.

I get it....she's a woman born with a penis. But this is the second incident in just weeks where a decision of which section of population is the right one had to be made. A week or so ago, a woman was in a change room when a person with an erection approached her....supposedly also a transgendered woman.

So, if people are just taken at their word that "inside I'm a woman" does that not open the door to any sicko getting in to the women's area?

She is being kept separate from the general population (thank goodness) but I think it would be wrong to place her in a woman's prison, unless there she was also segregated

 

[prufrock21]

A rose by any other name. Fifty years from now this won't even be a topic of conversation.

 

[Winter]

A rose by any other name. Fifty years from now this won't even be a topic of conversation.

I dont understand what you mean?

@Anne-Marie I think I agree with you, she should be keep safe herself but I think if a, the law states penis = male prison and b, the potential for this to become a slippery slope (or so she hopes!) then a males prison, in segregation, is where she belongs.

 

[prufrock21]

I dont understand what you mean?

@Anne-Marie I think I agree with you, she should be keep safe herself but I think if a, the law states penis = male prison and b, the potential for this to become a slippery slope (or so she hopes!) then a males prison, in segregation, is where she belongs.

We discuss it now because it seems scandalous. In the future equel rights will accrue to everyone, even transgenders. So we won't give it a second thought.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...protective custody will be the destination in either gender lock-up, more than likely...too much opportunity for trouble if not...

 

[Lepplady]

If she's gone through surgical transition, she should go to a women's prison. If she's still got male parts, she should be in a separate, protected section at a male prison.
Some time in the future, there will probably be separate facilities for this specific part of the population.

 

[Winter]

We discuss it now because it seems scandalous. In the future equel rights will accrue to everyone, even transgenders. So we won't give it a second thought.

but to me it wasnt a case of rights not being equal?

 

[AnnaMarie]

We discuss it now because it seems scandalous. In the future equel rights will accrue to everyone, even transgenders. So we won't give it a second thought.

So, who decides (and how) whether a person who says he's female on the inside really is? Do you have children? Would you be comfortable with your 13 year old daughter in the change room at a pool with a person saying they are female inside, but having a penis on the outside. What if the person is a lier and what they are on the inside is a pedophile?

I am NOT saying a transgendered person is a pedophile. I AM saying a pedophilde would lie about being transgendered.

As for jail.....how many men will suddenly decide they are transgendered if it means they can go to jail with women.

Pre-surgery it is an issue and always will be.

 

[Lepplady]

So, who decides (and how) whether a person who says he's female on the inside really is? Do you have children? Would you be comfortable with your 13 year old daughter in the change room at a pool with a person saying they are female inside, but having a penis on the outside. What if the person is a lier and what they are on the inside is a pedophile?

I am NOT saying a transgendered person is a pedophile. I AM saying a pedophilde would lie about being transgendered.

As for jail.....how many men will suddenly decide they are transgendered if it means they can go to jail with women.

Pre-surgery it is an issue and always will be.

It's more than a matter of a guy saying "Oh, I'm a woman on the inside" to get special consideration. There's usually a lengthy medical and psychological history of a transgendered person to support a claim. Often, there's a history going back to childhood. There's also usually a long history of a person taking hormones to make him or herself more like the desired gender. In this article, she had a long history and is legally a female because she'd met all the legal criteria to be considered such. If a person can come up with the history to support such a claim, then they certainly deserve the consideration. If the claim doesn't come up until they face jail time, let 'em go to the men's jail while they complete a program that includes psychiatric evaluation to back up their claims.

And let's not forget transgender ftm men. Male to female trannies outweigh female to male ones by a great deal, but the latter need to be considered, too. What would happen to a ftm man if he were put in a men's prison and they found out that he was born a female? Same thing as if a transgender girl were put into GP. So where does he go to be safe?

 

[AnnaMarie]

The Star

How does a change room clerk make that decision?

 

[staropeace]

I use to go out with two of my friends who were going through sex changes. One was male and one way female. Sometimes deciding on which washroom to use was a pain in the arse. The female looked very male and would get really hard looks if she went to the washroom with me lol. Sometimes, we would just chuckle at folks reaction. Come to think of it, I am friends with a lot of folks who had surgery like this and a lot of cross-dressers as well.

 

[staropeace]

I meant to say that when I worked doing family support for Caniff and assoc here in Edmonton, we councelled people having sex changes. It is a long process.

 

[AnnaMarie]

I meant to say that when I worked doing family support for Caniff and assoc here in Edmonton, we councelled people having sex changes. It is a long process.

My concern isn't about the people legitimately going through a sex change. My concern is that if just telling a minimum wage pool attendant is enough, it can too easily be taken advantage of by people who are not transgendered.

 

[Lepplady]

My concern isn't about the people legitimately going through a sex change. My concern is that if just telling a minimum wage pool attendant is enough, it can too easily be taken advantage of by people who are not transgendered.

I'm pretty sure it's not enough just to say it. There's got to be a process. I would hope so, anyway.

 

[Lepplady]

This reminds me of an episode of Law and Order: SVU. A transgender girl gets sent to prison.
Here are the highlights.
What they don't show in the clip is that she's convicted, sent to jail and ends up getting badly beaten and gang raped.

 

[Garriga]

Putting a transgender in a men's prison could be dangerous. In the states PREA protects offenders from any type of sexual abuse or harassment. This includes sex between guards and offenders as well as sex between inmates.

This is a tricky case. I'd assume isolating her from the general population would be the best solution.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...indeed, and at my Institution and many others the Prison Rape Elimination Act is the new "cause du'jour"...as it well should be...the true transgenders would have to be segregated to be protected...there will always be the chumps trying to get one over though...

 

[AnnaMarie]

I'm pretty sure it's not enough just to say it. There's got to be a process. I would hope so, anyway.

The incident in the change room doesn't seem to have had anything beyond the person saying it. And what else would there be for a situation like that? It's not like there are ID cards issued.

And I think a transgendered person using a public bathroom is a bit different. Other then at this Olympics, there are individual stalls. In a change room there are not always individual curtained areas.

 

[Sundrop]

So, who decides (and how) whether a person who says he's female on the inside really is? Do you have children? Would you be comfortable with your 13 year old daughter in the change room at a pool with a person saying they are female inside, but having a penis on the outside. What if the person is a lier and what they are on the inside is a pedophile?

I am NOT saying a transgendered person is a pedophile. I AM saying a pedophilde would lie about being transgendered.

As for jail.....how many men will suddenly decide they are transgendered if it means they can go to jail with women.

Pre-surgery it is an issue and always will be.

I'm not sure how it is with every case, but when I was working at Belk, I met a transgender man who lives as a woman. He/She is in the process of becoming a woman. I have talked with him often....and he doesn't mind respectfully curious questions. Currently, he is taking hormones, and the physician treating him has told him to live and dress as a woman for at least a year before having the gender changing surgery.

 

[VampireLily]

Why couldn't they put her in the woman's prison but in a separate area from General Pop? I understand that she committed some sort of crime but they still should be considerate of her welfare.... putting her in a male prison certainly isn't safe.