Well, this is unexpected, but I can dig it!

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Takoren

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Nov 25, 2015
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Well reasoned blog entry. I understand your POV but don't agree with you. Roland is only iconic to Constant Readers. Joe Public has no idea who Roland is.

Run through the DT story in your mind. Now change Roland's race. Switch genders. Run through the story again. Does changing any of those characteristics fundamentally change Roland's journey? I From where I stand, the answer is no.
Um...yeah. I actually talk about that in the blog post.

Change Roland's race and you have to change multiple things about Susannah, including Detta's entire motivation against Roland. Among other things.

One thing I didn't point out is that if all Gunslingers are descendants of Arthur Eld, that means every Gunslinger portrayed had better be black.

Also, I'm not talking about Joe Public. I'm talking about Constant Readers. Any time there's an adaptation, the goal should be to entice people who've read the original. They'll bring their friends. Word of mouth will spread from them. But if they hate it, you lose all that.
 

Baz

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Sep 14, 2008
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Idris Elba is a good actor, but I don't see him as Roland. If they can get this wrong so early on it doesn't give me much faith for the rest of the development choices. Who's gonna play The Woman In Black? Lets just change everything................ Also Roland will be a third wave feminist in this version of the film, going town to town in the desert telling men how privileged they are before he shoots them
 

Takoren

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Nov 25, 2015
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Idris Elba is a good actor, but I don't see him as Roland. If they can get this wrong so early on it doesn't give me much faith for the rest of the development choices. Who's gonna play The Woman In Black? Lets just change everything................ Also Roland will be a third wave feminist in this version of the film, going town to town in the desert telling men how privileged they are before he shoots them
:rofl::rofl::very_drunk::very_drunk:
 

OldDarth

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Jul 10, 2006
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Um...yeah. I actually talk about that in the blog post.

One thing I didn't point out is that if all Gunslingers are descendants of Arthur Eld, that means every Gunslinger portrayed had better be black.

In one reality we are familar with. Who's to say what the Eld line's makeup is in other world iterations?

To paraphrase Jake, "There are many other worlds."

That's the whole beauty of the DT series, anything is possible. The only limit is imagination.
 

Takoren

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Nov 25, 2015
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In one reality we are familar with. Who's to say what the Eld line's makeup is in other world iterations?

To paraphrase Jake, "There are many other worlds."

That's the whole beauty of the DT series, anything is possible.....
Still, it would just change far too much about the interplay between Odetta/Detta/Susannah and Roland. No, I'm sorry. Usually I agree that there is no problem casting a role written as white with a black person, but not this time.
 

OldDarth

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Still, it would just change far too much about the interplay between Odetta/Detta/Susannah and Roland. No, I'm sorry. Usually I agree that there is no problem casting a role written as white with a black person, but not this time.

It would be different but the fundamentals of the tension between the two does not change. So yes, it would have a different flavour but variety is the spice of life!

Watch the TV series - The Wire, which Idris Elba is in, to see how this type of relationsip could be played. Some pretty intense interplay there!
 

Takoren

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Nov 25, 2015
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It would be different but the fundamentals of the tension between the two does not change. So yes, it would have a different flavour but variety is the spice of life!

Watch the TV series - The Wire, which Idris Elba is in, to see how this type of relationsip could be played. Some pretty intense interplay there!
I've watched that entire series, and I loved it. I love Elba as an actor. I'd love to see him in the lead role in some King-based production. Just not this one.
 

OldDarth

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And yet Thor is now a woman and there has been a black Spiderman! :Oo:


Someone here doesn't like stew! ;;D

And with that, my part in this palaver is done and it's time to get back on the Beam Trail.

Long days and pleasant days everyone!
 

Takoren

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Nov 25, 2015
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Stan Lee said it well, there's no need to change established characters race or sexual preferences.
I understand the desire to be inclusive. Heck, nine times out of ten, it works quite well and I'm totally on board. At this point I can't count the number of comic book characters written as white that have been played by actors of color on screen, and I wasn't bothered by any of it (except possibly Michael B. Jordan as the Human Torch, because it was so obviously a PC move, not to mention nepotism).

But just because it works nine times out of ten doesn't mean we need to do it all the time and that it doesn't matter which roles get race lifted. We've got movies and TV series set in medieval or Tudor-era England and people still complain when the cast is all white. Sometimes it just makes more sense, people!

Here's a quote that really puts it in perspective for me:

"Ultimately, my problem with this movement is that it's focused (without anyone admitting that this is the case) on stamping out Whitey. And hey, I get it: Whitey sucks. Historically, he has sucked ass. This is not lost on me; after all, I am of the clan Whitey, so I have seen some of that from the inside. (Similarly, I am of the clan Male Oppressor, and I know what sort of bullsh*t we've been perpetrating on you ladies for eons. Sorry about that.)

But here's the deal: why would you want to kill Whitey and then wear all his old shirts and all his old underwear? Why would you want to drive his old station wagon and live in his old house? I'd think it would be more satisfying by far to get my own house, my own car, my own clothes, and then drive my awesome self past old sourpuss Whitey every day and flip him the bird while laughing about how awesome my life was. Even if my life wasn't that awesome, that's how I'd want to play it; if I can't have an awesome life, I'd at least want Whitey to think I did."
 
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Takoren

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2015
242
815
46
And yet Thor is now a woman and there has been a black Spiderman! :Oo:


Someone here doesn't like stew! ;;D

And with that, my part in this palaver is done and it's time to get back on the Beam Trail.

Long days and pleasant days everyone!
Yes, but they didn't try and claim that these characters had always been black or female. Both characters you described are legacy characters. It's apples and oranges.

Not to mention Marvel recently pulled a DC and wiped out their existing universe, replacing it with a new one, so the old continuity no longer even applies. When the Ultimate timeline introduced a black Nick Fury, an Asian Wasp and a gay Colossus, I didn't complain because, hey, new timeline, new rules. But if they had tried to do that in the main timeline and insist that this has always been the way it was, that I would have a problem with. That's why I didn't like them announcing that Iceman was gay now. First, they had a number of gay characters in the X-Men already, and second, there was no hint prior to the announcement that Iceman was hiding his true self at all. In fact, he'd always been one of the characters most comfortable with who he was.
 

AnnaMarie

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Feb 16, 2012
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I wonder, if King is down with Elba what reactions are gonna be then.....

I love Kubrick's version of The Shining.

~~~~

In Cell they changed Tom from a middle aged gay white man to a black soldier (retired? Not sure) the change of race I did not care about. That he was no longer gay and had been in the army, those were changes that turned me right off. I assume King was acceptable to the changes?
 

Takoren

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Nov 25, 2015
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I love Kubrick's version of The Shining.

~~~~

In Cell they changed Tom from a middle aged gay white man to a black soldier (retired? Not sure) the change of race I did not care about. That he was no longer gay and had been in the army, those were changes that turned me right off. I assume King was acceptable to the changes?
Really? Cell hasn't come out yet, so I didn't know this. That's dumb.

See, the problem to me has nothing to do with race but with respect for the source material.