The dark tower movie

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SHEEMIEE

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2010
1,315
5,574
If they eliminate everyone's back story, there's not really much story left.

I just watched that back story cut version - Roland (fassbender) helped a young man journey west in search of his rose - no tower but he is searching for a log cabin / no colour issue - but there are Indians and gunslingers and horses. And an evil baddie following them along the way through the desert has slight of hand tricks- but no RF . No desert instead a forest .

'slow West'. Rent it now before the rush .

Who needs back stories .
 
I beg to differ. Detta takes a good long while to fade even after Suzanna is made whole. More to the point, the distinct backgrounds (and ethnic differences) between Suzanna and the other two adds a great deal of depth and dimension. Differences between characters in a story are like facets on gems. Watering them down and/or changing them for some idiotic convenience destroys the actual story and replaces it with something else. More to the point, Detta is not backstory. The events take place in the story, and are a big part of it. I am not a fan of it when people refer to character as backstory. It tends to mean they think the guns and action sequences are the story. The story is the characters. I want to echo what AnnaMarie said, and tweak it slightly. If you eliminate character, there is no story left.
I usually agree with your take on things Bob Gray but, you make some serious assumptions with what I wrote. I never said her character wasn't important, I never said I thought guns and action was the story. The ethinic differences are not the only reason she's so horrible. I believe she is described in the book as an equal oppertunity monster. We're talking about something as easy as having the screen play swap out "white and honkey" for other colorful language. The character is just as likely to spew her venomn at black Roland as white Roland, because she's vile. A chunk of Detta's character development has to do with the violation that he was in her head. If you need a race reason, traveling with "white bread" Eddie would do it too. Why is it hard to envision that she wouldn't act exactly the same no matter what Rolands race is?

I don't see how selecting a lead actor who is a fit for the role (except he's not white) as being an "idiotic convenience".

No film version is going to show ALL of Detta's character development (aka backstory). No screenplay covers every bit of backstory that's in the book. I get that we all want it to be exactly like the book....but it's a differnt piece of art, a different medium altogether.

And re-read the ending of Drawing of the 3 "Detta takes a good long while to fade even after Suzanna is made whole" are you joking? There's NOTHING that would keep them from casting Elba in this part.

On the other hand, if they were looking to whitewash Detta, that would completely invalidate her character. But Roland could be black and it won't ruin the story.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
I usually agree with your take on things Bob Gray but, you make some serious assumptions with what I wrote. I never said her character wasn't important, I never said I thought guns and action was the story. The ethinic differences are not the only reason she's so horrible. I believe she is described in the book as an equal oppertunity monster. We're talking about something as easy as having the screen play swap out "white and honkey" for other colorful language. The character is just as likely to spew her venomn at black Roland as white Roland, because she's vile. A chunk of Detta's character development has to do with the violation that he was in her head. If you need a race reason, traveling with "white bread" Eddie would do it too. Why is it hard to envision that she wouldn't act exactly the same no matter what Rolands race is?

If you swap things out and change them, you alter the story. The story is based on the relationships and motivations of the characters. Race is an important facet of Detta. While she is a monster, deleting out the racial aspects of her anger would water her down and undermine the forces that made her into a monster. Spewing "generic" venom isn't the same. It is shallow. Then she is just crazy/hateful for no good reason. The character from the book is black and has a long history which is steeped in bigotry against her, the Civil Rights Movement, and her race strongly affects the personalities and perceptions of both Odetta and Detta. Can they dumb the character down? Sure. Can they make her tirades generic? Sure. Can they rewrite the story utterly? Sure. That doesn't mean they should.

I don't see how selecting a lead actor who is a fit for the role (except he's not white) as being an "idiotic convenience".

Here is where we differ. There are probably hundreds of actors "fit" for the role. Altering anything to get a specific actor is an idiotic convenience. We, the fans, have waited a long time to see the Dark Tower on the screen. Swapping out skin color isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about altering huge chunks of the text because a particular actor is hot right now. It is beyond just an idiotic convenience. It is downright moronic.

No film version is going to show ALL of Detta's character development (aka backstory). No screenplay covers every bit of backstory that's in the book. I get that we all want it to be exactly like the book....but it's a differnt piece of art, a different medium altogether.

Not being able to get all of it isn't a good reason to throw the rest of it out. I've heard this excuse time and time again. The problem is we aren't talking about them just leaving things out. We are talking about their rewriting the story. There is no good reason for it. It has already been written and written well.

And re-read the ending of Drawing of the 3 "Detta takes a good long while to fade even after Suzanna is made whole" are you joking?

No. I'm not joking. Try rereading the entire series. Detta reappears and remains relevant in the larger story. She is part of the battle against Mia.

There's NOTHING that would keep them from casting Elba in this part.

Let's tell the truth and shame the devil here. They aren't talking about him for the part because of his considerable acting chops. They are talking about him because it gets press. They are talking about him because free press is useful. They are talking about him because he is a hot commodity right now. That's it.

On the other hand, if they were looking to whitewash Detta, that would completely invalidate her character. But Roland could be black and it won't ruin the story.

Again, you are missing my point. If they are going to change Roland's ethnicity just to grab a hot commodity for the part, it means they aren't really interested in the story as written. It means that every single thing in the books is in flux. Let's take it step further. By your logic, there is no reason Odetta/Detta can't be white. Multiple Personalities and hate could travel couldn't it? I can think of tons of great actresses with the chops to play her. I mean if they are going to take the racial bias out of Detta and make her venom more generic, there is no reason for her to have any of that Civil Rights background is there? I'm not being snide. I'm pointing out that if Roland's race doesn't matter, hers doesn't either. For that matter, Eddie could be a Russian living in New York. Why not? I mean one young man is pretty much the same as another right? By your logic the details don't matter. I disagree. I think the specific details are what differentiate one story from another.
 
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If you swap things out and change them, you alter the story. The story is based on the relationships and motivations of the characters. Race is an important facet of Detta. While she is a monster, deleting out the racial aspects of her anger would water her down and undermine the forces that made her into a monster. Spewing "generic" venom isn't the same. It is shallow. Then she is just crazy/hateful for no good reason. The character from the book is black and has a long history which is steeped in bigotry against her, the Civil Rights Movement, and her race strongly affects the personalities and perceptions of both Odetta and Detta. Can they dumb the character down? Sure. Can they make her tirades generic? Sure. Can they rewrite the story utterly? Sure. That doesn't mean they should.



Here is where we differ. There are probably hundreds of actors "fit" for the role. Altering anything to get a specific actor is an idiotic convenience. We, the fans, have waited a long time to see the Dark Tower on the screen. Swapping out skin color isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about altering huge chunks of the text because a particular actor is hot right now. It is beyond just an idiotic convenience. It is downright moronic.



Not being able to get all of it isn't a good reason to throw the rest of it out. I've heard this excuse time and time again. The problem is we aren't talking about them just leaving things out. We are talking about their rewriting the story. There is no good reason for it. It has already been written and written well.



No. I'm not joking. Try rereading the entire series. Detta reappears and remains relevant in the larger story. She is part of the battle against Mia.



Let's tell the truth and shame the devil here. They aren't talking about him for the part because of his considerable acting chops. They are talking about him because it gets press. They are talking about him because free press is useful. They are talking about him because he is a hot commodity right now. That's it.



Again, you are missing my point. If they are going to change Roland's ethnicity just to grab a hot commodity for the part, it means they aren't really interested in the story as written. It means that every single thing in the books is in flux. Let's take it step further. By your logic, there is no reason Odetta/Detta can't be white. Multiple Personalities and hate could travel couldn't it? I can think of tons of great actresses with the chops to play her. I mean if they are going to take the racial bias out of Detta and make her venom more generic, there is no reason for her to have any of that Civil Rights background is there? I'm not being snide. I'm pointing out that if Roland's race doesn't matter, hers doesn't either. For that matter, Eddie could be a Russian living in New York. Why not? I mean one young man is pretty much the same as another right? By your logic the details don't matter. I disagree. I think the specific details are what differentiate one story from another.
We're just going to have to disagree on this one Robert buddy.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
W

We're just going to have to disagree on this one Robert buddy.

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree. For the record, I love the actor in question. Luther is one of my favorite shows. My concern is that I want to see The Dark Tower, not some echo, some pale imitation, some re-imagined concept. That is what I've been waiting for, so it irks me just how much rewriting is being implied. My view is none of the parts should be played by well-known actors. I think they would do best casting talented unknowns.
 

Takoren

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2015
242
815
46
Fair enough. We can agree to disagree. For the record, I love the actor in question. Luther is one of my favorite shows. My concern is that I want to see The Dark Tower, not some echo, some pale imitation, some re-imagined concept. That is what I've been waiting for, so it irks me just how much rewriting is being implied. My view is none of the parts should be played by well-known actors. I think they would do best casting talented unknowns.
Exactly. Perfectly said.

I'd be okay with some better-known actors in smaller parts, but I'd prefer an unknown or little-known as Roland.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
After seeing the first few episodes of Ed Harris in HBO's Westworld, I'm thoroughly convinced he would have been an excellent choice for "older" Roland. He has the eyes. He is thin but fit, i.e. he projects a hard as nails image. He is just weathered enough by age to be believable without being too old to play the part or complete a franchise if it took off. He can act/emote without saying much of anything at all. He plays a good guy and a total bastard with equal skill, which in portraying Roland would be necessary. It pains me that he didn't get the part, but then again since the part isn't the books but some alternate, new turn of the wheel... I guess it doesn't really matter. :(
 

not_nadine

Comfortably Roont
Nov 19, 2011
29,655
139,785
Behind you
'Roland' and 'Jake' eat hot dogs during a break.



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So there you go, and now you know.