Unarmed South Carolina man shot by police

[fljoe0]

Here we go again

South Carolina trooper shot unarmed man, police say - CNN.com


This looks very bad. What I can't figure out here is that the article said the man was pulled over for a seat belt violation. Why did the officer have his gun drawn?

One thing I do notice is that the guy that was pulled over is out of his car. When you are pulled over, never get out of your car unless you are asked to. Still, even with the guy out of his car, I can't see anything that comes close to justifying what happened. There must be more to this story because does anyone really ever get pulled over for a seatbelt violation?

 

[Lepplady]

Here we go again

South Carolina trooper shot unarmed man, police say - CNN.com


This looks very bad. What I can't figure out here is that the article said the man was pulled over for a seat belt violation. Why did the officer have his gun drawn?

One thing I do notice is that the guy that was pulled over is out of his car. When you are pulled over, never get out of your car unless you are asked to. Still, even with the guy out of his car, I can't see anything that comes close to justifying what happened. There must be more to this story because does anyone really ever get pulled over for a seatbelt violation?

They do if there's some ulterior motive that the seatbelt is just an excuse.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...there was no justification for the shooting...none...there was no immediate threat shown...yes, the swivel to the open car door could be misconstrued-but it seems as if the shooter already had his weapon out-therefor, any threat could be neutralized quickly if needed...this was an egregious abuse of "continuum of force" policy...

 

[SutterKane]

At least the cop checked to see if he was okay and called for help promptly. Not excusing it at all, but it tells me this was a case of the cops nerves being to wound up and making a mistake rather then him just shooting the guy because he felt like it. He probably really thought the guy was going for a gun. Being black didn't help the poor guys cause I'm sure, you know these cops have been glued to the TV watching this Ferguson thing unravel. Situations like that just make people more tense then they already are.

I'm sure the cop will lose his badge, which he should. No need to be representing the system when your that over anxious. And I'm sure some ambulance chaser will crawl out the woodwork and make this guy a millionaire in record time. Could have been much worse.

 

[Flat Matt]

That guy is lucky to be alive.

The cop was obviously jumpy as hell and totally jumped the gun (if you'll pardon the pun). I'm not surprised he's lost his badge over it.

As someone who lives in a country where the police don't carry guns, it's difficult for me to form a more rounded opinion. I don't know how you are supposed to behave if an armed police officer asks for your licence and you need to reach into your car for it. Should the guy have backed towards his car with his hands in the air, been more cautious or told the officer that it was in his car?

 

[Dana Jean]

That guy is lucky to be alive.

The cop was obviously jumpy as hell and totally jumped the gun (if you'll pardon the pun). I'm not surprised he's lost his badge over it.

As someone who lives in a country where the police don't carry guns, it's difficult for me to form a more rounded opinion. I don't know how you are supposed to behave if an armed police officer asks for your licence and you need to reach into your car for it. Should the guy have backed towards his car with his hands in the air, been more cautious or told the officer that it was in his car?

One time, we were stopped for a burnt out tail light. I had the new bulb in the car. My husband was driving. The officer told him why he stopped him and I said, "I have a new light bulb right here, may I reach for it?" He said yes. I reached down and brought it back up to show him and told him we just hadn't gotten it installed. They generally just give warnings for that anyway, but I wanted him to know we were aware and we were taking care of it. But I asked permission to move first.

 

[hossenpepper]

At least the cop checked to see if he was okay and called for help promptly.

Yeah after he had cuffed him and such. Before that, he was happy to go on shooting if need be in his mind.

I'm sure the cop will lose his badge, which he should. No need to be representing the system when your that over anxious. And I'm sure some ambulance chaser will crawl out the woodwork and make this guy a millionaire in record time. Could have been much worse.

I think he already did lose his badge. I saw something about this on the morning shows today and I think they said he was facing criminal charges, but I could be wrong.

 

[hossenpepper]

...there was no justification for the shooting...none...there was no immediate threat shown...yes, the swivel to the open car door could be misconstrued-but it seems as if the shooter already had his weapon out-therefor, any threat could be neutralized quickly if needed...this was an egregious abuse of "continuum of force" policy...

Not to mention there were gas pumps and others right behind where the guy was shooting toward. He fired before he saw a gun or anything. Total abuse of force.

 

[Flat Matt]

One time, we were stopped for a burnt out tail light. I had the new bulb in the car. My husband was driving. The officer told him why he stopped him and I said, "I have a new light bulb right here, may I reach for it?" He said yes. I reached down and brought it back up to show him and told him we just hadn't gotten it installed. They generally just give warnings for that anyway, but I wanted him to know we were aware and we were taking care of it. But I asked permission to move first.

Is that kind of standard behaviour in the US then? It makes sense to me.

I suppose I would be more likely to ask permission to retrieve something from inside my car if I knew the police officer was armed - and I'd be really cautious.

The guy could have been more cautious, perhaps, but that cop just let the bullets fly a bit too readily in my opinion. I'm just happy that the guy has lived to tell the tale.

 

[Lepplady]

That guy is lucky to be alive.

The cop was obviously jumpy as hell and totally jumped the gun (if you'll pardon the pun). I'm not surprised he's lost his badge over it.

As someone who lives in a country where the police don't carry guns, it's difficult for me to form a more rounded opinion. I don't know how you are supposed to behave if an armed police officer asks for your licence and you need to reach into your car for it. Should the guy have backed towards his car with his hands in the air, been more cautious or told the officer that it was in his car?

He should have said "I'm reaching for my license, okay?" and not spun around. Slow, deliberate actions with the police. They don't react well to quick, sudden actions.

 

[Flat Matt]

He should have said "I'm reaching for my license, okay?" and not spun around. Slow, deliberate actions with the police. They don't react well to quick, sudden actions.

That's what I thought, but the cop didn't exactly ask any questions before firing. Seems pretty excessive to me.

How many times did he shoot him? Sounded like one hell of a lot of shots.

 

[Mr Nobody]

I'm starting to wonder how much, if any, of this stuff comes down to the 'climate of fear' that we've lived under for the past 13 years or so, where law enforcement has been conditioned to see terrorists behind every lamp-post and seems to equate suspicious/criminal activity with terrorism, at least on some (subconscious) level. We don't see as much of it here since, as Flat Matt points out, our officers aren't routinely armed...but we are seeing instances where people are getting shot - with the police shooting to kill rather than incapacitate - and are subsequently proven to have been unarmed all the time and/or presenting no threat.
The tactics being deployed are almost military - shoot first, ask questions later; a weapon in the hand is a threat no matter where it's pointed, and so on - and that's a pretty big shift.
Another question then becomes, has there been a push to get ex-military personnel/Afghanistan and Iraq 2 veterans fast-tracked into law enforcement? Because those people are bound to be jumpy as hell if so, and some of those who really jump at the chance are probably the people who should be turned away. Either way, something should be done to make sure they're no longer going to 'combat mode'. If there's been fast-tracking of former combat troops.

With all that said, when my aunt and uncle went to visit relatives in New York City back in about 1994, they were advised then that, if they got pulled over, the safest thing was to wait with your hands clearly on the steering wheel, and reach for documents, etc, only when instructed - and to tell the officer(s) where they were first, then move quite slowly, rather than just going for them.

 

[hossenpepper]

He should have said "I'm reaching for my license, okay?" and not spun around. Slow, deliberate actions with the police. They don't react well to quick, sudden actions.

True, but they also need to learn to judge the danger of a situation so things like this don't happen. I am sure the guy's plate had already been run and unless there was a warrant or something, I don't understand why the cop would be on edge for a routine traffic stop anyway. I am sure we all know what the ACLU and such will say.

 

[hossenpepper]

I'm starting to wonder how much, if any, of this stuff comes down to the 'climate of fear' that we've lived under for the past 13 years or so, where law enforcement has been conditioned to see terrorists behind every lamp-post and seems to equate suspicious/criminal activity with terrorism, at least on some (subconscious) level. We don't see as much of it here since, as Flat Matt points out, our officers aren't routinely armed...but we are seeing instances where people are getting shot - with the police shooting to kill rather than incapacitate - and are subsequently proven to have been unarmed all the time and/or presenting no threat.
The tactics being deployed are almost military - shoot first, ask questions later; a weapon in the hand is a threat no matter where it's pointed, and so on - and that's a pretty big shift.
Another question then becomes, has there been a push to get ex-military personnel/Afghanistan and Iraq 2 veterans fast-tracked into law enforcement? Because those people are bound to be jumpy as hell if so, and some of those who really jump at the chance are probably the people who should be turned away. Either way, something should be done to make sure they're no longer going to 'combat mode'. If there's been fast-tracking of former combat troops.

With all that said, when my aunt and uncle went to visit relatives in New York City back in about 1994, they were advised then that, if they got pulled over, the safest thing was to wait with your hands clearly on the steering wheel, and reach for documents, etc, only when instructed - and to tell the officer(s) where they were first, then move quite slowly, rather than just going for them.

Yes, you've hit on something very true. Since 9/11, the police here have been militarized quite a bit. I once had a copy of a training brochure that the Dept of Homeland Security was sending around to all the PDs. It had all sorts of reasons for them to be paranoid and have their guns ready to draw with EVERY interaction with the public. One of the suspicious acts that could signal the need for deadly force: a person that cites their Constitutional rights "too much". So yeah, they are trained to be paranoid as hell. I personally think it's a miserable way to live your life. And over on the Ferguson thread I said it time and again that the militarization of what used to be friendly members of the community trusted to help and protect is a SERIOUS problem.

And yes, they do fastrack ex-military into the police here. That has been a long tradition though, so it's not now "more than normal" historically.

 

[SutterKane]

In all fairness, there have been many incidents through the years of suspects making sudden movements, reaching their hands into a place where the officer's view is blinded, and pulling out a gun rather than a license. In these situations, your taught to think fast because failure to do so might result in your death.

Man accused of killing Mendota Heights police officer asks for expedited pretrial hearing | Star Tribune

^^^ You never know man, the guy reaching into his car might turn about to be that guy. Best policy is to stay frozen until the cop signals you to do otherwise.

 

[Lily Sawyer]

This made me cry for so many reasons.

 

[Dana Jean]

Is that kind of standard behaviour in the US then? It makes sense to me.

I suppose I would be more likely to ask permission to retrieve something from inside my car if I knew the police officer was armed - and I'd be really cautious.

The guy could have been more cautious, perhaps, but that cop just let the bullets fly a bit too readily in my opinion. I'm just happy that the guy has lived to tell the tale.

This was just something I did. I don't know what anyone else does.

 

[Lepplady]

That's what I thought, but the cop didn't exactly ask any questions before firing. Seems pretty excessive to me.

How many times did he shoot him? Sounded like one hell of a lot of shots.

Definitely excessive. That's what I thought, too, that he shot a BUNCH of times.

 

[FlakeNoir]

One time, we were stopped for a burnt out tail light. I had the new bulb in the car. My husband was driving. The officer told him why he stopped him and I said, "I have a new light bulb right here, may I reach for it?" He said yes. I reached down and brought it back up to show him and told him we just hadn't gotten it installed. They generally just give warnings for that anyway, but I wanted him to know we were aware and we were taking care of it. But I asked permission to move first.

Holy crap, I would probably be taken out because I would never even think to ask if I could show him... it wouldn't have even (until now) crossed my mind.

 

[Dana Jean]

That's what I thought, but the cop didn't exactly ask any questions before firing. Seems pretty excessive to me.

How many times did he shoot him? Sounded like one hell of a lot of shots.

Hey Matt, just a heads up, you're about 14 posts away from being unmoderated. If you get yakky, we can have you unmoderated before the night is through.