I just saw a commercial for Syfy's 12 Monkeys. That's the first I've ever heard of it, and I confess myself fascinated. I loved the movie and I can see how it could be adapted to TV. But I can also see how it could be badly botched. I can't wait to see how they handle it.
12 Monkeys
- Thread starter Lepplady
- Start date
-
This message board permanently closed on June 30th, 2020 at 4PM EDT and is no longer accepting new members.
Pitt was awesome in this movie! So was Willis! I think it brought out his (Willis) vulnerable side that hadn't really been seen before this movie.
I watched that one when it first came out on VHS.
I doubt I finished it.
Eight thousand years later, during a mental break of my own, I found it for a buck at a communal yardsale.
I don't run it often, but I really dig that flick.
I doubt I finished it.
Eight thousand years later, during a mental break of my own, I found it for a buck at a communal yardsale.
I don't run it often, but I really dig that flick.
I like Terry Gilliam's direction. The plot was intriguing. Bruce Willis was fine, but I thought it was Brad Pitt's best performance that I'd ever seen, bar none. So twitchy.
I've just seen the movie once, and it was indelible. I need to see it again.
I've just seen the movie once, and it was indelible. I need to see it again.
^ The scenes with the two of them in the nuthouse were great. I agree...Pitt's best work.
I totally agree with this comment. He was good in that role. On a side note...Darn he is aging well.
Brad really committed to the character. Pun fully intended.
I've only seen it once, and that was years ago now. I remember it was the film that made me realize that Brad Pitt was more than just another pretty-boy and actually 'had some game'.
(My sis had been telling me so for a while, but I figured it was a case of 'Well you would say that'.)
I have to admit my heart sunk at the news that it was going to be made into a TV series. The idea works fine as a film, but how you spin it out into 10-13 episodes (and, presumably, keep it open for a potential second season)...no idea. I just really hope it doesn't suck and taint the film by association.
(My sis had been telling me so for a while, but I figured it was a case of 'Well you would say that'.)
I have to admit my heart sunk at the news that it was going to be made into a TV series. The idea works fine as a film, but how you spin it out into 10-13 episodes (and, presumably, keep it open for a potential second season)...no idea. I just really hope it doesn't suck and taint the film by association.
there are endless scenarios where going back in time to fix something works. But I'm a stickler for paradox. If they can manage not to stomp on the paradox tripwire, I'll be happy with it.
Agreed...though Quantum Leap must have driven you insane, all that 'putting right what once went wrong...so [he] can return home'.
'Er...Sam, Ziggy says that by getting Jim with Jane instead of Mary you've...jumped out of our timeline's history and...now exist in the past of an...alternate reality.' *blinks in confusion at the mind-boggling concept, then jams cigar back in mouth*
But then 12 Monkeys...ah well.
My favorite show addressing that very topic was the JFK one, where Al explained to Sam that in the original timeline, Jackie Kennedy died, too. So the timeline where he saved her actually became the reality we all know. That was pretty profound.Agreed...though Quantum Leap must have driven you insane, all that 'putting right what once went wrong...so [he] can return home'.
'Er...Sam, Ziggy says that by getting Jim with Jane instead of Mary you've...jumped out of our timeline's history and...now exist in the past of an...alternate reality.' *blinks in confusion at the mind-boggling concept, then jams cigar back in mouth*
But then 12 Monkeys...ah well.
And the one where Al had a chance to save himself from the POW camp where he languished for years but didn't. That would have completely littered the timeline.
I can forgive the whole paradox thing in Quantum Leap because none of the scenarios would have affected Sam's lifetime directly. He still would have been a Doctor and Scientist anyway. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is the show where he went to Vietnam and saved his brother's life. If his brother lived, how did future Sam know to go back and save him? But I was happy how it turned out (and humbled by Al's sacrifice. That's the same episode where he could have liberated himself, but didn't), so I let it slide.
As long as the paradoxes aren't GLARING, I can let 'em slide. They just can't beat me in the face with them.
Continuum sort of does my head in that way. She's always worrying about 'changing the future' - 'what if this changes that?' - but no one ever seems to say 'You can't. And if you did, your future would probably be so different as to mean you'd never go back in time, so if you changed anything, you'd never have existed here because the future you know would never have been. Everything you do happens because it's always happened. Pre-destination; gotta love it. Now, chill'.
The thing that kind of bugged me about QL (much as I loved it then and still like it now, whenever I catch a repeat) was the 'butterfly effect' his changes would have to make throughout time.
Even one thing that didn't directly affect his past, could have shaped the future: he stops Ms X from continuing with an abusive relationship when Ziggy's data says the guy killed Ms X (let's say; iirc there was at least one ep where this kind of thing occurred). So, she doesn't die, goes off, marries someone better, has kids she would never otherwise have had, etc, and the guy never goes to jail.
Now what if, in jail, this guy was supposed to save someone who, on release, would father a future politician or scientist, someone who was shaping the world Sam knew? No jailtime for the killer of Ms X means the other prisoner dies and the kid is never born.
Equally, Ms X is saved, has kids, etc...but what if her kid turns out to be America's Hitler in the altered timeline? The future Sam knew is at best altered, or at worst (and this is more likely) it's completely gone. Maybe in that world Sam's dead, or working for the State on whatever. Either way he never researches the project or invents the accelerator.
Now, iirc...I can't be sure, it's been too long...wasn't part of 12 Monkeys to do with that? They're considered - or have been driven - crazy because, as the agents of change, they know/are convinced that things were different before, while everyone else was inside the 'bubble' and so remain(ed) unaware of any changes in time?
I'm gonna have to watch it again. (What a hardship.)
The thing that kind of bugged me about QL (much as I loved it then and still like it now, whenever I catch a repeat) was the 'butterfly effect' his changes would have to make throughout time.
Even one thing that didn't directly affect his past, could have shaped the future: he stops Ms X from continuing with an abusive relationship when Ziggy's data says the guy killed Ms X (let's say; iirc there was at least one ep where this kind of thing occurred). So, she doesn't die, goes off, marries someone better, has kids she would never otherwise have had, etc, and the guy never goes to jail.
Now what if, in jail, this guy was supposed to save someone who, on release, would father a future politician or scientist, someone who was shaping the world Sam knew? No jailtime for the killer of Ms X means the other prisoner dies and the kid is never born.
Equally, Ms X is saved, has kids, etc...but what if her kid turns out to be America's Hitler in the altered timeline? The future Sam knew is at best altered, or at worst (and this is more likely) it's completely gone. Maybe in that world Sam's dead, or working for the State on whatever. Either way he never researches the project or invents the accelerator.
Now, iirc...I can't be sure, it's been too long...wasn't part of 12 Monkeys to do with that? They're considered - or have been driven - crazy because, as the agents of change, they know/are convinced that things were different before, while everyone else was inside the 'bubble' and so remain(ed) unaware of any changes in time?
I'm gonna have to watch it again. (What a hardship.
)I'm not sure how they resolved the whole paradox thing.Continuum sort of does my head in that way. She's always worrying about 'changing the future' - 'what if this changes that?' - but no one ever seems to say 'You can't. And if you did, your future would probably be so different as to mean you'd never go back in time, so if you changed anything, you'd never have existed here because the future you know would never have been. Everything you do happens because it's always happened. Pre-destination; gotta love it. Now, chill'.
The thing that kind of bugged me about QL (much as I loved it then and still like it now, whenever I catch a repeat) was the 'butterfly effect' his changes would have to make throughout time.
Even one thing that didn't directly affect his past, could have shaped the future: he stops Ms X from continuing with an abusive relationship when Ziggy's data says the guy killed Ms X (let's say; iirc there was at least one ep where this kind of thing occurred). So, she doesn't die, goes off, marries someone better, has kids she would never otherwise have had, etc, and the guy never goes to jail.
Now what if, in jail, this guy was supposed to save someone who, on release, would father a future politician or scientist, someone who was shaping the world Sam knew? No jailtime for the killer of Ms X means the other prisoner dies and the kid is never born.
Equally, Ms X is saved, has kids, etc...but what if her kid turns out to be America's Hitler in the altered timeline? The future Sam knew is at best altered, or at worst (and this is more likely) it's completely gone. Maybe in that world Sam's dead, or working for the State on whatever. Either way he never researches the project or invents the accelerator.
Now, iirc...I can't be sure, it's been too long...wasn't part of 12 Monkeys to do with that? They're considered - or have been driven - crazy because, as the agents of change, they know/are convinced that things were different before, while everyone else was inside the 'bubble' and so remain(ed) unaware of any changes in time?
I'm gonna have to watch it again. (What a hardship.
At the end of the movie, we're supposed to believe that they caught the virus guy. But if the virus is never released, how do they know in the future to go back and catch the guy? THAT'S paradox. In order for the future to exist where they send somebody back to catch the virus guy, there has to be an epidemic. Good movie, though. I LOVE how his boyhood memories of the event at the airport were really him. That was pretty clever.
Yep...it's definitely time for another watch. I've forgotten way too much of it and when it comes to repeat viewings, that's always a good thing.
There's a risk that it could work against the TV series, though. That might be better being watched without the film fresh(ish) in the memory.
There's a risk that it could work against the TV series, though. That might be better being watched without the film fresh(ish) in the memory.
I also think that 12 Monkeys inspired 28 Days Later as well, in some ways, sans the time-travel part... although it's interesting to note that future Dr. Who Chris Eccleston was in 28 Days Later...
LL, I might have to watch the ending of it again to be sure, but I think that they figured out who the guy is that releases the virus but the aren't able to stop him. The last scene shows the woman from the future being on the same plane as him but she hasn't done anything to try to stop him from releasing the virus. It's left open and unanswered.
I used to have it on VHS tape too... have no idea what happened to it... things just seem to fall into an alternate universe from inside my apartment...
For a truly great story on time travel, watch the Fringe season two episode, "White Tulip"...
Right. I rewatched it. She catches the guy on the plane, but he had already let the customs guy sniff the virus. The outbreak happens anyway.