Any ideas anyone?

[EAST COASTER]

A friend and work colleague of mine died suddenly a couple of months ago which was pretty awful.
My wife and his wife have been friends for years and after the "dust settled" from the funeral she took his wife under her wing and between us we have sorted out all her affairs from financial to housing and beyond.
The trouble is my friend did absoloutely everything for his wife, in the last 29 years she has never paid a bill, shopped for groceries, he did all the jobs in the house and she has been like a rabbit in the headlights since he died just sat waiting for someone to come and do everything for her, which, at the moment, is what my wife is doing.
Trouble is, the more my wife is doing, the more her friend is letting her do it and she really can't keep it up much longer. My wife daren't pull back too much in case it pushes her friend to do something stupid and she would never forgive herself, so anyone got any ideas what we can do with a 46 year old spoilt child with no other family or friends?

 

[Walter Oobleck]

I dunno. I wish I could think of something.

One idea I had while I was sitting here trying to think of something is...a child. I guess I keyed on that word in the plea. I wonder if a child could be enlisted to come in at times and ask the friend to show how things are done. A child who is non-judgmental and who earnestly wants to know things, one who is curious, one who is already involved in each of your lives? Seems like a child would potentially bring out the guardian in your friend? Is there someone like that available?

Or a younger person, not necessarily a child...but a younger adult, even a teenager. One not likely to try to do too much...perhaps one that makes mistakes...or...could be told to make simple mistakes with the hope that this other person will correct them...and see that she too can do things, something to help build her confidence? I dunno. How does one motivate someone to take the initiative, someone who no doubt can do things? Someone will have some good ideas, I'll wager, someone who has perhaps been through something like this. All the best!

 

[Dana Jean]

She's an adult. Tell her that she needs to learn and start teaching her.

 

[DiO'Bolic]

Same happened when my mother-in-law passed away. My wife’s father never paid a bill, never shopped, never cleaned or did laundry, and his wife arranged for any repairs that needed to be done to the house. My wife also ended up doing everything for him for awhile, but after about 6 months she started making him do things one by one. Baby steps really was the way to go. He now pretty much does it all. I still do any repairs I can, and we take him anywhere he is not comfortable driving to, but my wife has been pretty much free and clear from the normal household chores and responsibilities. He thanks her all the time for getting him on track to self-sufficiency, and is proud he can now do it all himself.

 

[EAST COASTER]

Yes, we're trying baby-steps too, but she seems to just want everything taken away, even if it means ending up in a hospital, it's both frustrating and scary.

 

[Spideyman]

Something similar to when my dad passed. He had done everything for my mom-- it was a little different in her case as she was severely arthritic and couldn't do a lot of physical things. Neighbors helped at first, then they got to a point of needing to keep up with their own lives. A lady at the bank sat down, on her own time and showed her how to balance a ck book- even made sure each month there was time set aside for mom so the bank lady could go over the ck book. Eventually, that was learned. Being a member of the seniors club, shopping became an "outing time". It was a slow process but she became very independent. She had to accept the fact that handyman were needed to cut the grass and make repairs, not to depend on neighbors.

When my across the road lady friend had a stroke, her husband was at a total loss. She had done everything! He could clean as that was his contribution to the marriage. The two closest neighbors banned together. I showed him how to use a washer, he learned. If he was overwhelmed, I'd help out. He learned about slow cookers, bread machines, microwaves and presto- he has become an excellent cook. The other neighbor, a male, took care of the land- mowing, repairs and the husband learned. Since the couple only stay here for the winter, the male neighbor became the summer caretaker of the land.
Another factor was his learning to care for his wife. ( usual routine before was eat breakfast, go for the morning horse ride and be gone for the day) We found a nice hair dresser, he learned to help his wife pick out clothes, being a retired teacher, he now become the teacher to his wife.

It's been several years now and with each winter return I see more progress-- in each.
In the beginning there is a lot of hand holding, doing and being there. Eventually, as with your own child, you have to let go. Hopefully the progression, for your friend, to learning to do for herself will happen soon.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...all the above are good suggestions my friend...but this lady needs a dose of reality and a swift kick in the seat of the pants....she's not a child, she's NOT helpless-just unwilling to learn or accept the fact she doesn't have a built in chief cook and bottlewasher anymore....playing the "head in the sand" card isn't a valid response...seems to me that maybe some psych counseling combined with community education classes might do the trick, and what I mean by community ed is most areas have groups that will help with life-skills for any age...this chick needs booted from the coop...bless your wife for helping, but this woman doesn't want autonomy...she wants a servant...that is taking advantage of your wife's huge heart...

 

[FlakeNoir]

I had two reactions to this situation.

1) is it possible that she was never allowed to do any of these things in their relationship? (things sometimes do happen behind closed doors) Perhaps her reactions to suddenly being alone are fear-based, but she doesn't know how to convey that?

2) she just can't be bothered because either, a) she doesn't have to or b) she is deeply depressed because she has lost the love of her life?

Either way, for your own piece of mind, perhaps you could enlist the help of a professional?

 

[17021jude]

All posts above are full of great thoughts on how to handle this situation. I don't know that I am adding much here, but "fear" of the unknown can really cripple some people. We are all built differently, some of us take life by the horns and aren't scared of much, others not so much. Having a sit down with this individual and talk about her short comings in the areas of her life that really need her attention and offer to teach her to be independent in her everyday business. Some people are so overwhelmed by the thought of independence that they don't know where to begin, or they are scared they may fail at something new. Let her know you're willing to teach her how to do these things and let her know that you'll always be there to answer any questions but that ultimately it's her life and she'll have to do these things for herself. I commend your wife for all her hard work and dedication! There aren't many people in this world who are ready and willing to help someone the way your wife has

 

[Lepplady]

Sooner than later, she's going to have to learn to do these things for herself. You and your wife are angels to help her out, but she's going to have to learn to stand on her own two feet. That might include falling on her butt once or twice, but we all did that when we learned to walk. She will, too. And she'll learn to get back up and toddle on. Be there for moral support, but make it plain that she's got to do things on her own. It might seem cruel, but she'll thank you for it when she catches on.

 

[blunthead]

I had two reactions to this situation.

1) is it possible that she was never allowed to do any of these things in their relationship? (things sometimes do happen behind closed doors) Perhaps her reactions to suddenly being alone are fear-based, but she doesn't know how to convey that?

2) she just can't be bothered because either, a) she doesn't have to or b) she is deeply depressed because she has lost the love of her life?

Either way, for your own piece of mind, perhaps you could enlist the help of a professional?

The first of Flake's is an idea which had not occurred to me, while the second is the one that concerns me about the lady. Scott's suggestion seems very realistic, especially the counseling one (and if she has insurance, otherwise, there may be community services for that) if there are community groups such as he describes which can be employed. For sure, for your wife to be doing most everything is out. For her to give assignments, as it were, sounds like a good place to start disconnecting and encouraging independence.

 

[EAST COASTER]

...all the above are good suggestions my friend...but this lady needs a dose of reality and a swift kick in the seat of the pants....she's not a child, she's NOT helpless-just unwilling to learn or accept the fact she doesn't have a built in chief cook and bottlewasher anymore....playing the "head in the sand" card isn't a valid response...seems to me that maybe some psych counseling combined with community education classes might do the trick, and what I mean by community ed is most areas have groups that will help with life-skills for any age...this chick needs booted from the coop...bless your wife for helping, but this woman doesn't want autonomy...she wants a servant...that is taking advantage of your wife's huge heart...

You say very true there friend and I have had a similar conversation with my wife a couple of times now. I think the time is fast approaching when her patience will run out. Unfortunately the lady in question is and always has been very self-centred and doesn't even see the effect she is having on the two of her children who still live at home. It's a difficult situation.

 

[EAST COASTER]

I had two reactions to this situation.

1) is it possible that she was never allowed to do any of these things in their relationship? (things sometimes do happen behind closed doors) Perhaps her reactions to suddenly being alone are fear-based, but she doesn't know how to convey that?

2) she just can't be bothered because either, a) she doesn't have to or b) she is deeply depressed because she has lost the love of her life?

Either way, for your own piece of mind, perhaps you could enlist the help of a professional?

She certainly is suffering from depression, she is also seeing a counsellor once a week. I sorted her finances out two months ago and told her exactly how much she had to spend once all the bills etc have been paid and she is fine in that regard. The counsellor told my wife last week that she had told him that she was scared of being homeless and she didn't know how she was going to afford to eat, even though she is actually better off than we are.
I think it's going to be a very long road.

 

[Grandpa]

The gentleman died a couple months ago? While you guys, and particularly your wife, have been under the burden of helping her every day and are feeling the strain, for her the emotional wound is still gaping and seemingly hopeless. My observation is that a loss of someone very close - spouse, child, parent, close sibling, lifelong friend - can really feed the snakes in the brain for a good four, six months**. So you seem to be at a crossroads now where your patience is understandably running thin, while she's not yet able to cope well through the grief.

It would seem that her coping mechanism for life is gone. What she really wants is a replacement for that mechanism that takes care of things for her. (In her head, she may even wish for you guys to take her in so she won't have to pay bills or sleep in an empty house with fresh memories.) It's not a reasonable desire or expectation, and that's an awful fact that she won't accommodate well.

So, yeah, it has to be spoon-fed to her. You guys simply can't spend your lives on her life, and she needs to come to that realization. It just won't be an easy path. Good luck leading her there. I wish there were a simpler way, but the throes of the grief process throws up some barriers before arriving at acceptance.





**My observation of a very rough average. Some people cope well off the bat; others never really learn to cope fully.

 

[GNTLGNT]

You say very true there friend and I have had a similar conversation with my wife a couple of times now. I think the time is fast approaching when her patience will run out. Unfortunately the lady in question is and always has been very self-centred and doesn't even see the effect she is having on the two of her children who still live at home. It's a difficult situation.

...aye, that's why she needs to continue to have herself in front of a professional....my thought?.....tell her she's on her own, unless she agrees to keep getting help for her issues...if she follows thru, then be available-but not to enable-until she's self-sufficient.....she isn't suffering just from the helpless widow complex, she has serious co-dependency issues....

 

[Walter Oobleck]

Here in the States there are businesses that cater to people who need a helping hand. Visiting Angels is the name of one. Perhaps there is something like that there, one that could be enlisted for short durations? What does she take pride in, if anything? Accentuate the positive, as the song has it, eliminate the negative and by doing so the scales will begin to tip. Does you wife go alone to do the shopping for groceries or does the other accompany her? Instead of doing for her, teach her how it is done. Show her the logic of lists...the logic of watching the sales...if such things exists and I assume they do. If one fear is the unknown that she has the means to remain in the home, maybe get her into the habit of generating a budget, checking things off as bills are paid. Sounds like you have taken the time to show her it can be done financially...repeat the process? Put it on a list and put it on the fridge...at the bottom place a reward...a night out on the town, something. And I dunno how old are the two children living at home? Are they not capable of lending a helping hand?

 

[EAST COASTER]

...aye, that's why she needs to continue to have herself in front of a professional....my thought?.....tell her she's on her own, unless she agrees to keep getting help for her issues...if she follows thru, then be available-but not to enable-until she's self-sufficient.....she isn't suffering just from the helpless widow complex, she has serious co-dependency issues....

Right again there, her mother is the same unfortunately. Her partner died 3 years ago and she went from being a well turned out, houseproud lady to a lank-haired recluse with only a twice weekly home-help to visit. Selfishness runs deep in that family I'm afraid.

 

[not_nadine]

Maybe she can go stay with her mother.

 

[do1you9love?]

No advice that hasn't already been stated. Just good wishes to you and your wife as you ease out of this black hole. Best of luck to you all!