Connections? ***DT Spoilers****

  • New to the board or trying to figure out how something works here? Check out the User Guide.
  • New 2019 Hours: The message board is closed between the hours of 4pm ET Thursday and 8:30am ET Tuesday.

    As always, the Board will be open to read and those who have those privileges can still send private messages and post to Profiles.

Andrew_James

Member
Aug 3, 2014
5
23
35
IDK what happened, but here it goes. Love SK. First book I read of his was the Gunslinger...quickly got neck deep in the entire DT series. Finished that and now I'm thumbing through all the related books.


Came here to ask a question

******anyone who hasn't finished the DT series, Insomnia or IT should stop reading now******


I have a theory about the relationship between IT, Insomnia and DT that I have never before heard discussed. Its pretty much known that there are all different "where's" and "when's" all taking place on different levels of the Dark tower at the same time. It also explains in Dark Tower and in Insomnia that on different levels of the tower, relative time can be slower or faster depending what level you are on.

......In insomnia at the end, it talks about a young Patrick Danville spontaneously drawing a picture of Roland approaching the Dark Tower with the Crimson King at the TOP. Then minutes later a plane crashes into the auditorium. And then after that the narrator says something like "all worlds for a moment are still, and in one of these worlds, a man stirs in his bedroll and breathes easy"....or something like that.

.......In end of the Dark tower, the Crimson King is marooned towards the bottom of the tower on a balcony as Roland approaches. And then we all know what happens to him after that

.......In IT, they say that a "cycle" begins every 27 years or so, and said cycle is ended by some sort of great sacrifice where a lot of people die.


Here's my stab at a connection. I'm thinking that the plane crash in Insomnia was the end of a cycle.....even though I don't believe the book outright says that a lot of people have been missing lately. I also think that "time" moves faster on the Insomnia level of the tower. So what took mere minutes (in Insomnia-level relative time) for Roland to approach the tower (as described in insomnia), climb tower, and get banished back to the desert, took perhaps hours for him to do on his level. Furthermore, I'm thinking that since Roland is pretty much the Protagonist for all worlds on the tower...it takes a cataclysmic event like the plane crash in Insomnia, or the explosion of Iron Works or the fire at The Spot in IT....to either cause...or perhaps it represents Roland being sent back to the desert to start his journey again. And here's one last kicker to my theory. In IT, they say a cycle happens every 27-30 years....its not exact. Since time might also be a lot faster on the "IT" level of the tower, I wonder if the beginning, and consequently the ending of the cycle depends on how far along Roland is in his quest. It never says outright how long Rolands Quest takes him from start to finish, but I'm wondering if it takes the equivalent of ~27 years on the "IT" level, and however long the story of Insomnia lasted from when Ralph Roberts started losing sleep till when the plane crash occurred.



What do you guys think?
 

Walter Oobleck

keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going
Mar 6, 2013
11,749
34,796
I think the devil is in the details. Curious theory...if cataclysmic events are related, are too minor events connected and what influence does one level have on the other if any? Does the accident at the beginning of the story bear any relationship to chaos purposefully fulfilled at the end of the story? Do events happen before they happen and what part does choice have in the matter? If we have free choice and if that is a part of ka what relationship does the ring have to that? the horn? the gun? the word? For whatever reason...ka...I'm reminded of a plea I made long ago...probably in more than one place and time...and even voicing the matter of the plea would be wrong because it is individual, a matter to me...but looking back, I can't help but wonder how often an answer to that plea was in the making...or...seemed to be in the making...but it's like that guy going over the hill...that old, was it an Indian (India) proverb or...what's the word...fable? 'bout the guy who passes the thing in the road cause his eyes are closed? Moving ahead splay-footed toward purpose? I think King used it at the end of a story, though I could be wrong on that, and I've forgotten which one if he did. I think Insomnia is pretty wild for all manner of reasons, but mainly for the seemingly random acts that take place that do seem to have echoes in the real world. You never know, do you, that you are missing something...all those answers that later in life appear to me now...the guy passing the thing in the road because his eyes are closed...and why was that? Not simply because his eyes were closed, but because of something else...so what part does choice have to say in that matter?
 

Andrew_James

Member
Aug 3, 2014
5
23
35
Welcome to the site, Andrew. :)
(I've just moved your thread into the General Discussion & Questions area of the Dark Tower forum.)
Thank you very much :)


I dunno...I guess if you try hard enough, you connect the puzzle pieces anyway you like to try to make connections. I guess the one disadvantage of reading the DT books first before any other is you realize that the main characters and their respective plots from other books, are just sub characters and sub plots to Roland's journey. And you learn that what Roland does or doesn't do sometimes has a ripple effect throughout other levels. I know when I finished the dark tower I had a lot of questions. Such as if guys like Randall Flagg are aware that Roland has been caught in this wheel for a while, is he always going to encounter the same hurdles in his journey or do those change too? Has the Crimson King always been imprisoned in the tower? Based on his palaver with Randall on the western sea, its understood that when he goes through the tarrot cards, that might dictate who Roland does his journey with.

I just know when I read the plane crash scene in Insomnia, that the connections with Patrick Danville drawing a picture of Roland, the plane crash, then all the sudden Roland being back in the desert stood out to me like a sore thumb...that maybe somehow these events signify something bigger that is going on in other worlds. Maybe Roland's triumphs and failures in his own quest depend sometimes on the heroics of "small" characters like Ralph Roberts from Insomnia. I also couldn't help but see similarities in the characters from IT and DT. Big Bill was like Roland....tall, lanky, resourceful, the voice of reason and practicality....always knew what to do. Richie Tozier was a lot like Eddie Dean. Beverly was a lot like Susannah...especially in the sense how she was the best with the slingshot just like Susannah was the best with the orizas. Jake was a lot like Ben. The cast from IT started forgetting about what they had done just like the events started fading to Susannah at the end of DT. I think SK is unbelievably brilliant and even though I know a lot of my theories are far fetched, I can't help but wonder what SK is thinking when he drafts these stories and characters from thin air
 

taylor29

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2014
103
389
Like you, I am all about the details and connecting one book/world to another. I think we are both fortunate to have the Dark Tower as a sort of filter through which to see SK's other books and to "get" those little nuances that aren't necessarily caught by other readers who don't know or care much about the Tower. It's a token to us from SK. I read several books before DT, but man...I think I missed parts of the "real" story. It's no easy thing to love a story and its characters so much you want to extend its reaches into other stories.

I am very interested in your idea that the journey isn't the same every time. I would agree that it's not, but I think the basic structure of the journey is the same. Your reference to the Crimson King being at the top...in another cycle, choices Roland made or his ka-tet or Gan may have resulted in the big Red Daddy getting higher or lower. Time is so screwy that I'm not sure that I buy into the cycles being a specified timeframe...I wonder if it was more a reference to the total years it took SK to write the DT? But then...SK writing DT is also a level of the tower.

Without a doubt, the characters in DT are in some form throughout the rest of the novels. Names, qualities, and realities are so clearly referenced in other works. Danny from the Shining or Dr. Sleep (the book I'm reading now) would be a breaker in another world.



Thank you very much :)


I dunno...I guess if you try hard enough, you connect the puzzle pieces anyway you like to try to make connections. I guess the one disadvantage of reading the DT books first before any other is you realize that the main characters and their respective plots from other books, are just sub characters and sub plots to Roland's journey. And you learn that what Roland does or doesn't do sometimes has a ripple effect throughout other levels. I know when I finished the dark tower I had a lot of questions. Such as if guys like Randall Flagg are aware that Roland has been caught in this wheel for a while, is he always going to encounter the same hurdles in his journey or do those change too? Has the Crimson King always been imprisoned in the tower? Based on his palaver with Randall on the western sea, its understood that when he goes through the tarrot cards, that might dictate who Roland does his journey with.

I just know when I read the plane crash scene in Insomnia, that the connections with Patrick Danville drawing a picture of Roland, the plane crash, then all the sudden Roland being back in the desert stood out to me like a sore thumb...that maybe somehow these events signify something bigger that is going on in other worlds. Maybe Roland's triumphs and failures in his own quest depend sometimes on the heroics of "small" characters like Ralph Roberts from Insomnia. I also couldn't help but see similarities in the characters from IT and DT. Big Bill was like Roland....tall, lanky, resourceful, the voice of reason and practicality....always knew what to do. Richie Tozier was a lot like Eddie Dean. Beverly was a lot like Susannah...especially in the sense how she was the best with the slingshot just like Susannah was the best with the orizas. Jake was a lot like Ben. The cast from IT started forgetting about what they had done just like the events started fading to Susannah at the end of DT. I think SK is unbelievably brilliant and even though I know a lot of my theories are far fetched, I can't help but wonder what SK is thinking when he drafts these stories and characters from thin air
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neesy

mustangclaire

There's petrol runnin' through my veins.
Jun 15, 2010
2,956
12,720
47
East Sussex, UK
When I read the series, a few years ago, I came away with an astonishment that the series seemed to link ALL his books together. I won't say I loved the DT series, because I didn't, but even I fall into the "essential read" camp now. Stick around on here and you will see so many links in so many of his works it makes you look at all he's ever written in a whole new light :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sundrop and Neesy

taylor29

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2014
103
389
The DR series is certainly not an easy read. I will not be visiting Blaine or Lud anytime soon, if ever, but I love the continuity of the story across all K'S stories (even if I don't love the individual ones).


When I read the series, a few years ago, I came away with an astonishment that the series seemed to link ALL his books together. I won't say I loved the DT series, because I didn't, but even I fall into the "essential read" camp now. Stick around on here and you will see so many links in so many of his works it makes you look at all he's ever written in a whole new light :)
 
The Institute - Coming September 10th, 2019